We hear a lot about so called oppressed races in Nepal. Who are they, how are they oppressed, and by whom?

From Maoist terrorists to Congress slimes, they claim they represent the oppressed races of Nepal. The oppressed races are those who aren't educated, don't own land, and aren't politically dominant. Lets examine the reasons behind their so-called oppression using historical logic, shall we?

First, lets look at at the political domination. Then we will look into economic domination. Bhote groups have their own language and culture. Education was never part of their culture, otherwise they would have a written script to communicate and educate their young. Pahadis on the other hand had written script AND the history of learning. Education was never foreign to Pahadi, but it was to Bhotes.

Today, the same Bhotes claim to be "oppressed" because they aren't educated and, therefore, aren't politically dominant. They should question their own ancestors for not creating a culture of learning. A lot of groups don't have a learning culture. They don't needed to. Tribal groups from Australia to Africa to America were not educated. They survived just fine in the ancient times. But now in the age of knowledge, education is valued and needed. They still don't have the culture for learning. From my own experience, the bhotes in my boarding school were NEVER into studying. The chippeka keta haru always hated us Bahuns who liked to study and prepare for exams and earn good scores. We excelled and they got STUCK. Can they blame us because they were "oppressed", or they blame themselves? Their parents were rich, no doubt, in the Gorkha army and all. But their mind was still primitive. Blame themselves not us.

Now lets look at the Madheses. Terai was a malaria infested SWAMP LAND with very few people like Tharus. The Tharus never owned land. They were hunters. They hunted rats and small games. They did not know agriculture. After the swampland was cleared and Pahadis settled in Terai and owned a lot of land. Seeing their own Bihar being filled with Biharis, the Biharis started trickling into Terai. By the time they had arrived, there was no land for them to own. So how can they call themselves oppressed for being landless when 1) they were never into agriculture and 2) they migrated late, after all the lands had been taken.

Hence, it is now clear that these 2 primary "oppressed" races have no merit to whine about oppression. They should blame themselves, not others who had learning culture and were quicker.

That is all for now.

oh wow
so well put

and on a similar note, the african americans in the US are to be blame for their own plight regarding their socioeconomic conditions. look at theie ancestors. they were slaves. therefore the current blacks still have a slave mentality, and are no better than animals

and you, bramhin, are not to be blamed for your incredible arrogance. you see, we bramhins have been the best caste for ever, so obviously this feeling of superiority has been in our culture. poor arrogant jackass. we dont blame you. you are to be pitied.

la chef - One critical flaw in your response is that you compare the Bhotes to the African Americans. Were Bhotes ever enslaved like African Americans? No, Bhotes have always been free. Do African Americans have their own language and culture? No, Bhotes have their own culture.

The oppression of African Americans in America is REAL. The so-called oppression of Bhotes in Nepal is a farce and a lie.

You leave me speechless... Bra man.

what is the caste system except a systematic oppression of the so called 'lower castes'?
yeah yeah, discrimination on the basis of caste is illegal in nepal, but we all know that it still exists
so yes, there IS a difference in the SCALE of discrimination
but to deny that the discrimination exists?

and another thing
you say that the bhotes' ancestors are to blame because of the lack of a culture of education is to forget that the current system of governance was NOT a bhotia phenomenon. it was initiated by those that are most likely to benefit from it, namely the lettered upper caste.
so yes, they are opressed
because they are being ruled by a system of governance that was foisted on them, hence incompatible with their culture. and the nepali government hasnt exactly gone out of its way to ensure that the remote corners of nepal get a good school system, has it?

Un, bhotes aren't caste. They are a different RACE. They have their own racial history, cultural history, and linguistic history. Calling them oppressed race just because they are not educated is just propagating lies.

La Chef - As I explained before, Bhotes do not have a culture of learning because they never needed to in the harsh Mongolian/Tibetan land. So, today, they are not dominant in the system. The correct term to describe is not "oppression", but "autonomy." They have always been autonomous people until the 1990 democratic "reforms"(a lie).

of course they are a different race
but try explaining THAT to some of my relatives who are convinced that this divine hierarchy encompasses all people in the world.

thats what im talking about
the SYSTEM
they are being represented by a system that excludes them from the political arena because their culture did not have the necessary institutions.
and the people running the SYSTEM were upper caste people who never realized that it disenfranchised the bhotias. hence no efforts were made to correct this sitation. now you may look at the situation from the upper caste prespective and say 'hey, this is the system. all you gotta do is educate yourself, and bingo, your there'
but you can also look at it from the other prespective.

a) all these nepali-speakers, upper caste ppl are running the country, and hence have all the power
b) you need an education to make yourself heard
c) this upper class-run government is not helping us get an education
d) why is this? is it because they dont realize they are marginalizing us?
e) this cannot be, because our plight is REAL AND VISIBLE TO US
f) therefore, they must WANT to keep us out of the system
g) WE ARE BEING OPPRESSED

any system of governance that claims to represent a spectrum of people must make efforts to ensure that all people have a say. a system that does not actively try to bring the marginalized people into the mainstream is, in my opinion, discriminatory

but thats just my opinion

La Chef, your point #f is flawed.

"f) therefore, they must WANT to keep us out of the system "

The system itself is alien to the Bhotes. You have to stop thinking Nepal as some easily accessible utopia where every race is seperated by imaginary lines. Not so. Every race is seperated by real lines, like geographic boundaries. The snow dwelling people from Jumla are not in contact with anyone but themselves. They are uneducated. Because of "oppression"? Or because they are an entirely different nation? Think about it. Nepal is not a flat plain. It is mountainous with isolated groups. The "system" was never meant for those isolated groups living in the fringes of "Nepal." They are autonomous people who live lives according to their OWN ways, not some system of Pahadi urbanites.

then why does the system claim to represent NEPAL

bahun baje

We all are oppressed by a family. No race is superior to human race. ( oppression of race..too primitive a topic for debate) Brahmans are as oppressed as bhoteys and damai kamis or madhesis... If Brahmins were as educated and superior as whites, they would rule the world. So..dont think that your race is great. A toupee in your head does not make you any superior. And bhotey race is not inferior because they are dirty, ugly, uneducated and uncultured.
Brahmans are so detested because of their own selfishness, and greed. You are just trying to infuriate hatred among us. It is that aquiline nose of yours ..you are so frustrated with. You are so obsessed about your looks you would even cut your nose to look like a bhotey and stitch your eyes so that they look slit..right? you're a racist moron dog. shame on you.

this post sud be deleted.

my apologies, confused, but i disagree

look, the dude(ette?) might have controversial ideas, but (s)he hasnt exactly slurred anyone personally, has (s) he.

i know tons of people can refute these arguments with reasons better than the ones i have given. im waiting for them.

thats the thing about a free forum. let these ideas come to light. that way, we have a chance to prove how wrong they are.

of course, we could delete discussions like this and go back to hurling insults. that would be more fun, wouldnt it

Brahmann ji: If your intentions are to champion the Brahmins by typecasting the other castes into "ones who have no culture of learning.......etc." you are not doing the Brahmins a favor either by giving questionable arguments. You are an embarrassment!

Would you agree, since ancient times, the Brahmins and the Chettris have always been privileged? When you have a group of people who are consequently underprivileged in one society, the underprivileged take on the meaning of "the oppressed". It is not about how much you study or your other Brahmin friends study. "You" or a handful of people cannot represent a group of people. When you refer to agroup of people as a whole, you have to be mindful of the socio-economic, socio-cultural backgrounds of all those you are comparing. For such a discussion, you might want to delve a little deeper than such blanketed statements and research some social stats /facts regarding the status of castes: the underprivileged as well as the privileged according to the holy scripts, the socio cultural traditions, behavior and practice. And then only place the castes you refe tor (as well as Brahmin and Chettri) to in their proper place based on the above evidence. If you are willing go beyond your small window of opinions then only, can you have a valid discussion.

Brahman, by your token, Nepal has been pretty much messed up by Brahman and Chettris-- the well educated rulers. If Brahman and Chettris didn't rule Nepal for so long, maybe we would have a better country than it is now...

Brahman Ji...
"Education was never part of their culture, otherwise they would have a written script to communicate and educate their young."
Be clear about it. Which type of Bhotes are you referring to? Tibetan descendents do have scripts of their own and they ARE as educated as yourself, may be something that you're not interested at all. But the fact: they do educate their childrens, what do you think monks and nuns are?
Abstract from the movie (Tibet:Cry of the snow lion): While the west was exploring OUTER space, we were exploring the INNER space. What is important? Only the time will tell.

"They should question their own ancestors for not creating a culture of learning. A lot of groups don't have a learning culture"
It seems you have never visited a Bhote's family.

"From Maoist terrorists to Congress slimes, they claim they represent the oppressed races of Nepal"
Isn't that hypocracy? Who started the movement? I bet it was not us.
Look back in our history, we've done nothing to harm to anybody. Period.
We're not Monarchy, or Democracy, not Maoist at all. They are all the outcome of your so call superior race.Why would you be proud of these anyway?
We never bother anybody, please do not bother us. Leave us in peace.
And if you still think you're superior than us, give me your phone number and address. We can talk.

Well Brahman, if you were an American White, you would be classified as a paleoconservative, in style of Pat Buchanan, Jared Taylor, David Duke and the now-deceased Sam Francis(he just died about a week ago. Was an editor of the Washington Times). The view they share is that Whites founded this country, and in fact many paleocons believe that anybody who's different in terms of skin color need to be expelled. Paleoconservatism is almost at its last legs, to tell you the truth, because almost 30% of Americans are non-whites. Now, 70% of America's population includes Whites, but "Whites" is a term that even encompasses Iranians and Arabs, according to the US census. Now, many Whites are liberals, and many conservatives aren't paleoconservatives, so people who believe such viewpoint are basically fringe elements and nothing more. These types of people fear competition, favor isolationist policies, are vehemently anti-semitic and anti-minority, and are basically racialists, that is they believe some groups are superior to others. They try to deny the holocaust. They are for racial profiling because blacks and hispanics commit more crime than Whites. This is in a sense true, but they forget that serial killers are usually whites. So they believe( exluding Jews) that the Chinese and the Japanese have the highest IQ, followed by Whites. The rest are nothing but subhumans, according to them. They hold the view that South Asian accomplishments were White accomplishments, because supposedly ancient South Asians were blonde and blue eyed. They point to white-looking actresses like Aishwarya Rai, Madhuri Dixit, etc to prove that Brahmins were originally White, whose ancestors decided to marry outside of their race. The crux of the matter is that they point to South Asia(India specifically, but Nepal in many instances) in order to buttress their opinion that miscegenation or interracial marriages will lead to cultural decadence. That is, Brahmins were once a separate race until they mixed up with the indigenous inhabitants of South Asia. So they point to us bajeys and say that Whites shouldn't head the way they did. They like the CASTE SYSTEM a lot. Nitzhe supposedly espoused his own caste theory. All these opinions are basically tin-foil hat theories not backed by any pieces of evidence, whatsoever. They say that blacks haven't achieved anything.

I go toe-to-toe with these White supremacists almost on a daily basis. Many of them are extremely smart individuals, let me tell you, albeit misguided. They have this propensity to make blanket statements by judging people based on a few bad apples. For instance, they might say that Hispanics and Blacks are lazy. They might say that South Asians stink like curry, etc.

Brahmann, I frankly don't see much difference between you and paleoconservatives. I guess you're a Nepali version of American paleocon. Be warned,however, that you yourself might be judged someday because of your background. It is likely to happen.

But I respect your right to free speech. Just don't get shocked when they prejudge you too. That's all.

I wonder why this kind of truly racist topic is not disallowed to be discussed in 'sabai Nepali ko' sajha.
Firstly, I seriously doubt the identity of this author. I doubt his nationality as a Nepali as well as his cast as a bahun.
Secondly, he seems to be committed to provoke and promote racial hatred amongst the Nepalese. This man is trying to incite hatred against bahuns from Nepalese belonging to other castes, and vice versa.
Beware of his propaganda. He may not be a real Nepali.

To sum up, neither the bahuns should feel themselves being superior to other Nepalese nor the others allegedly described as oppressed should feel inferior to bahuns. Because of our social fabrics weaved hundreds of years ago, Bahuns tend to enjoy better access to education (specially sanskrit) but now situation has changed a lot. Caste plays no role in the development of individual. Provided with equal oppurtunity and environment a Bishwokarma can be as talented as a Bahun by every standards.

Lastly, wise and competent people never think about caste superiority or inferiority. Those who think they are superior by caste should be condemned and isolated. I am a bahun by birth but I am ashamed that a man who claims to be a bahun is provoking such a despicable debate in a public forum. I hope other Nepalese reading this thread do not generalise all Bahuns and continue to respect the exemplary unity amongst our diversed ethnic groups. We are all Nepalese, these caste and crede are just for surname purpose.

Admistrator, should you think about removing this thread? This is really inciting potentially dangerous debate.