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 Is Mahabharat exactly true ? महाभारत मा भएका कुरा हरु के सत्य हुन् त ?

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Posted on 10-23-09 11:10 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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महाभारत मा भएका कुरा हरु के सत्य हुन् त ?  ...Does someone have good knowlege about mahabharat how the whole story came up ? Are those incident happend exactly what  were shown in " Mahabharat Program which is bordcasted in tv ? Did Ved Vyas wrote exactly what happened during mahabharat ???

Coz Mahabharat is really great !!!Just want more information from you guys !!!

Thank-X

 
Posted on 10-24-09 10:55 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nightelf,


I believe we are talking about Mahabharata, and not Ramayana.


Ramayana is another epic, but was written earlier than Mahabharata. There are two brief tenuous connections between these two epics. Hanuman is the first one, who agreed to sit on the pennant of Arjun's chariot. It is claimed that Hanuman was immortal, clearly a far fetched assertion. Perhaps they wanted to commemorate Ramayana during the wartime, and put a monkey emblem in their pennant. Besides Hanuman, a tangible connection is  Dronacharya, the guru of both Kaurava and Pandava in Mahabharata, who is curiously connected with Ramayana. Dronacharya is a son of Bharadwaj Rishi, who was a pupil of Balmiki who wrote Ramayana.


As an aside, a Nepali intellectual once told me that Kangada fort was made by Trigarta king Susharma during Mahabharata era. So, it was the reason why Amar Singh Thapa really wanted to get it. It is said to be about 3000 years old, and the king of Trigarta (or Katoch dynasty king Sansar Chanda who ruled Kangada at the time) resisted it with valor.So, Amar Singh Thapa sieged the fort for 3 years, from 1806-1809. We eventually had to fight with Punjabi king Ranajit Singh at the final stage of the siege, and we had to retreat. It was a body blow to the celebrated general Amar Singh Thapa's dream of expanding Nepal's boundary to Kashmir and beyond. There are actually lots of evidence from Mahabharata era, and historians are quite aware of it.


All stories are embellished to make it acceptable to winning side, but to say that the fabrication is beyond recognizable from fact is wrong. Intellectuals have always been fearless, and by their own nature have found a way to fool the rulers and yet transfer the knowledge to their progenies, and men of South Asia always desired to leave a legacy of truthfulness. Even in Nepal, the cruelty of Rana rulers, Shah kings are well documented. Nepali communists are often lazy, and in their anger, rather than reading what is in the history, or what our great historians have done so far, they just claim that "they don't believe the history as it is written" and dismiss it in a wholesale. Those who dismiss these histories often then tell the bullshits about Chinese leader named Mao and Russian leader named Lenin:) I personally believe truth is indestructible, it is in some form there, we just need to find a way to get around the "official version", but the way to do so is not via wholesale rejection of existing literature, but via critical (mimansa) reinterpretation of existing texts and via searching other alternative available. Ditto applies regarding Mahabharata.


 


 
Posted on 10-25-09 9:21 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Maybe India & Sirlanka have some historical facts regarding महाभारत and ramayana
 
Posted on 10-25-09 9:35 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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There could be several points not to believe Mahabharat but still there are some points which go on the favor of this event. As Neo has also pointed out many scientists have figured out high content of radioactive elements in Kuruchhetra area. I don't have to say anything about all the miracles described on Mahabharat, may be those were appended later. But we can also think about some unbelieveable activities in the history of human civilization like oragnizing those huge blocks of Pyramids.


If someone doesn't know which was earlier events of history or which was written earlier Mahabharat or Ramayan, it will be better for him not to write anything on those greatest epics of the world.


There is still some discussion going on whether Homer wrote Illiad and Odyssey first or Balmiki wrote Ramayan first. Some people say that Balmiki was inspired by Homer and others say Homer was inspired by Balmiki. And to find which one was written earlier people have tried to find the relative time of Ramayan based on Mahabharat. Ram has been called in many instances in Mahabharat but there is no single description of Krishna in Ramanayn. So there is no argument that Ramayan is older than Mahabharat. But how old is Mahabharat? If you just follow the lunar calendar the dates goes back to several million years which might not be the case. (However, I appreciate the sense of our astrologists that they dated our earth at least millions of years. Until someone came with the radioactive decay age of uranium and lead the whole western scientific community was thinking that the earth was created just few thousands year earlier.) There is a description of one solar eclipse in Mahabharat. The epic says that as that eclipse was kind of special one Shree Krishna went with Pandhavs to watch that eclipse. And when astrologists calculated back the date for that eclipse was around 5000 BC (?). So Mahabharat might not be that old which we generally think.


Another aspect is related with the development of the Mahabharat. All of us know that the Mahabharat was written by Vedvyas who himself was one character of that epic. But there is a history of the development of the whole epic. When it was written for the first time it consisted of descriptions war only fought between Pandav and Kaurabs for 18 days and that time it was called 'Jaya'. Later on more events were included on it and known as 'Bharat' and finally several stories got appended and became famous as Mahabharat.


So for some people it might looks like fantasy and for some this might be the very true. But for me I enjoyed the teleserial 'Mahabharat' the most made by BR Chopra. I have already watched this serial several times and still want to watch it.


 

Last edited: 25-Oct-09 09:57 AM

 
Posted on 10-25-09 10:11 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Regarding how old the universe is, here is a small calculation according to Agni Purana:


Kaliyuga: 432000 years


Dwaparyuga: 2*Kaliyuga


Tretayuga: 3* Kaliyuga


Satyayuga:4*Kaliyuga


1chaturyugi: 1 Kaliyuga+1 Dwaparyuga+1 Tretayuga+1 Satyayuga= 4.32 million years


1 Manwantar: 56 Chaturyugi.


1 Kalpa= 14 Manwantar 


1 Day of Brahma= 12 Kalpa

100  years = age that Brahma lives to

50 years = Brahma's current age, or,

155.5 trillion years = the current age of this earth

When sages and some Brahmins do sankalpa (or daily jap), they had to say exactly what day of present the year of present chaturyugi, manwantar and kalpa we live in. Today, for example, is 28th chaturyugi of our manwantar. So, half of our kalpa is over.


Our current manwantar is called baibaswat manwantar.


(Please google to find out about it...I am just a curious fellow, not a professional readers of these old epics, so I may have erred in my interpretation.)


Now, there is a question about how come our ancestors could come up with these huge imaginary numbers while Christians believed god created men on his own image and the earth is 6422. (-91 / +155) years old, and was created over seven days


One reason is "zero". A Christian one thousand years ago couldn't write 1 billion easily . Their highest number was M(=1000 years), Writing M ten times (i.e. MMMMMMMMMM) would make it 10 thousand years. To write 1 million they had to write M one thousand times, and to write a billion, they had to write M one million times. Their imagination was limited by their inability to express it.


Going back to Mahabharata, yes, like i said before, there are some concrete proofs from that era. The war of epic proportion , which drew men from around south asia, happened. Like I said, the Katoch dynasty is one of the oldest dynasties in the world, almost 9000 years old, until it was vanquished in mid nineteenth century. Sansar Chanda, who fought in Kangada against Nepali, was 481st king of Katoch dynasty. Their 231st king Susharma build the fort of Kangada (our western border once). Susharma fought for Kaurav, and died in the war. His army were the ones who encircled Abhimanyu as he was sucked into Chakrabyuha.


The reason why Mahabharata is so popular (even its TV serial stopped the whole India and Nepal when it was being aired) is not hard to explain. First, it is full of intrigues. Second, it has love, war and history and everything in it. Third, it was rewritten over several centuries. When Panini standardized Sanskrit grammer 2500 years ago, they rewrote Mahabharata and other epics in new grammaer (but didn't touch vedas as they were too sacred to rewrite). Mahabharata has been translated into Nepali and all language, written and rewritten over verses, and stories. It has extensive subplots, each chapters are worth reading independently, it has moral lessons for kings and ordinary people so everyone can relate to it. More than anything, it told people that even kings had to be moral, responsible to their people, and that truth always wins.

Last edited: 25-Oct-09 10:29 AM

 
Posted on 10-25-09 12:09 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Good find Pire,

That is why i find Hinduism the most intriguing religion of all. The concepts of space and time were well defined thousands and thousands years ago.

I had read a story where an ancient King had a daughter with "Battis Lakshan Yukta" and decided that no other man would be good enough for his daughter other than the creator Bramha himself. So he traveled accross the universe to meet Brahma to offer him his daughter. When he reached Brahma, Bhramha told the king that he has travelled so far away from his world that thousands of generations after him has passed already and his daughter and 1000s generation below the king were dead already.

Talk about TIME and SPACE travel. The king had travelled so far that he had broken the time space rule. It was amazing that the concept of time and space was available in a fable that is probably 5000 years old.

Sid



 
Posted on 10-25-09 3:28 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ladies and Gentleman,


I don’t wanted to touch the complicated subject and create unnecessary debate but since this is becoming more and more interesting I would like to put what I generalized after reading different history and watching Mahabharata and other related TV serials .

As I am a student of physical science my generalization is based on my education and profession where I do analyze lots of facts and try to relate each other.

First what is “Yug”

In my understanding the “Yug” are different stages of Aryan civilization. What we know in modern history is after a certain intervals, because of war, natural disaster, diseases immigrations etc has changed human culture/civilization. If you go through the changes in human civilization in last 500 yrs you will see what I am saying. Every ppl agree that we human are suffering from these things from the dawn of our existence. So past many centuries/millennium these things are constantly changing     our way of life/civilization/culture. Please Google the cause of demise of many civilizations. 

 Aryans race migrated from one place to other because of above mentioned causes and it is natural once you migrate to different place lots of things cant not remain same. In the same time there also occurs struggle for better life (sounds familiar?). When they migrated to different place they had to use the locally available resource for their living.

So when Aryan first established their civilized society they were very happy (its natural isn’t it?) population was small, enough resources so there was no need of lies and deceive. It was Satya “Yug”.

Leaders of “Satya Yug” were Indra (god of rain and King), Barun, Agni etc (mostly things required for agricultural life. Here Indra fights with ppl (Rakchyas) of other civilization to protect Aryan civilization. Holy Book of this Yug is Ved which covers the
history of different kings, moral lessons to the society in the form of songs. Educated people go to different places sing “Ved” and educate the people about the history and social behavior.

I imagine they must have produced lots of kids during that time (most ppl do it today too if the burden is less), they may have done so to protect their civilization (creation of large army, sounds familiar ha?) 

Some disease/natural disaster /war (people say it was because of drying of the Saraswati river due to earth quake) with other civilization must have forced Aryans to  move to new place where they tried to copy same thing of old place but couldn’t copy all because of weather/resources available etc. They needed lots of manpower too to establish new civilization so the life was not easy. This was “Treta yug”. Glorious leader of this “Yug” was Ram. Notice the change of leadership type from kings plus natural things to Kings only. In Ramayana there is use of more weapons and more wars are mentioned with local ppl then then in "Ved".

As people say history repeats itself, same thing might have happened after some centuries and they had to repeat process once again, it was “Dwaper Yug”. Glorious leader of this “Yug” was Krishna and the kings were important but not as in “Treta
Yug”. Please notice the change of the leadership type from kings to the local leader, indicating that as population grows more, necessity/ requirements/obligations
are more too, so direct rule of the kings is not sustainable unless you take the
help form local people. This point is very important because as the empire grows bigger direct rule can not sustain for longer time period (direct or indirect underlying cause of collapse of Roman, Austro Hungarian empires. Holy book of this era was Mahabharat.

Mahabharat was written in the beginning of Dwaper civilization and had only 8000 verses. Later on as the civilization grew they went on adding all possible glories of the time and it grew to 24,000 verses and finally at the end of Dwaper civilization it grew to 100,000 verses. During these additions they have added so many other unnatural things to make believe the forthcoming generations that many personalities in it are god which is not true. Because it was written over a longer time period people analyzing different part of Mahabharat come to different conclusion. and Panini finalize the Sanskrit grammar it may have been rewritten following the grammatical rules of Panini. During that time also (around 4th century BCE) lots of things may have been added.

 In the Dwaper civilization because of population growth and settling of Aryans in Indian plains, lots of small small principalities were developed. And here, once again, human nature took role each principality were trying to survive, grow, flourish and control other. Situation was mature for war as in the First World War. They just needed to lit it and this task was completed by feud between Pandabs and Kaurabs, all tricks were
used and the result was war of Mahabharat. The war was nothing but desire of
stronger Kingdom to take control of small kingdoms and grow.

Why they say each “Yug” is half the  previous “Yug”?

They were intelligent enough to understand the human nature/behavior as population grows resources available will be limited and the human greed to accumulate the wealth for one race or in personal level will invite conflict as we advance. (History of last 500 years says the same thing, also if we study the collapse of Wall Street in last 70 years the time between two recent collapses is becoming shorter and shorter
with some exception affected by other parameters.

So what is true in Mahabharat?

 War is true, moral lessons are true; philosophy is true.  But how the war was own? Just lots of BS added, regarding the use of atomic weapons very unbelievable and over hyped because presence of radioactive signature alone is not enough consequential evidences are also required. It was neither a grand war nor was fought for religion as lots of people think. It was just a power struggle between small kingdoms

What happened after Mahabharat?

 End of Dwaper yug and beginning of kaliyug. As I suggested before this war changed the human civilization in the area, need of new leadership, need of new thoughts regarding the governing system and need of new weapons were felt. After the fall of Roman Empire, Europe entered into a dark age for almost five hundred years. Similarly after the Mahabharat this part of the world also entered into a Dark Age which lasted for almost 1000 years, Renaissance in Europe brought scientific achievements but such Renaissance didn’t occur in this part. Gautam Budhha tried to break the Dark Age with different philosophy but his effort was annulled by Sankaracharya just like in Europe where lots of scientific efforts were annulled by Pops and Copernicus was burned alive. The grip of religious Dark Age remained in this part for another 1500 years. During that period this part of the world was enslaved by many civilizations and finally by the British.

Instead of moving forward with new thoughts and learning lessons from the past this area still prides in its simple but exaggerated past. This type of thoughts is obstacle to the forward movement.

Once again I am a student of Physical science and my profession is to link different pieces together based upon findings. I used human behavior/nature and general analysis of the history of world for last 500 yr as my facts. Rest is up to you guys.


Thanks




Last edited: 25-Oct-09 04:44 PM
Last edited: 25-Oct-09 04:47 PM
Last edited: 25-Oct-09 09:08 PM
Last edited: 25-Oct-09 09:17 PM
Last edited: 26-Oct-09 08:57 AM

 
Posted on 10-26-09 8:32 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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If mahabharat is true then the statement "I am a billionaire" is also true
 
Posted on 10-26-09 8:43 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Pire,

Are you a pujari? You seem to know a lot about Hindu dharma.

 
Posted on 10-26-09 8:53 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Pire,

Why are you giving *evidence/proof* when religion is based on faith?

Does providing evidence make religion more valid?

THE BOTTOM LINE:

Religion is faith based. There is no evidence of the stories actually happening. Faith has tremendous advantages. It can heal most mental/emotional ills. So, religion is actually good apart from fundamentalists fighting and blowing themselves up. But stories did not happen. Mahabharat didn't happen.

 
Posted on 10-26-09 12:49 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Powerranger,


You got it all wrong-- neither I am a pujari (a bona fide investment banker now, just after a graduate school), nor am I giving 'proof' of what is essentially a faith.


Whatever your purpose, your one liners don't serve it. Mahabharata is an epic, and we were discussing about its veracity. Hinduism is a faith, not Mahabharata. It is just an integral part of Hindu life.


 
Posted on 10-26-09 8:23 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Ok Pire

Questions for you:

1) Is Mahabharat 100% true? If not, what percent of it is true?
2) Is Mahabharat blown out of proportion? If so, by what percentage?

Just give your feel of the percentages. I am just trying to get your *feel*.
Last edited: 26-Oct-09 08:23 PM

 
Posted on 10-26-09 10:10 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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watch  Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey (Part 1 of 13) by Scientists then people will find answer.


 
Posted on 10-26-09 10:55 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Power Ranger,


Your question doesn't make sense and is irelevant here. To answer a question, we need to know two parts of it: ontological and epistomelogical. Does the answer exist(ontological issue)? No. Even if you read Clinton's own biography, can you tell me what percentage of it true? What method is there to come up with such solution and verify it(epistemological)?


So we have to come up with other answers to see if the book is true. Perhaps there are some circumstantial evidences that are consistent with the original tale? And it seems most of the vanshawali of north Indian kingdoms that stretch five thousands or so years tend to have some reference to this epic war. Things that has such an endurance quality are unlikely to be pulled out of thin air. That's all I am trying to say.


 
Posted on 10-27-09 7:43 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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My take on this:

I don't think that events in the Mahabharat occurred to the fullest description given in B.R. Chopra's "Mahabharat" TV Series. There may be some historical significance to the folks that were portrayed in Vyaas' epic. However, just like Homer's Iliad, the stories in the Mahabharat are mostly social commentaries.

Mahabharat was passed on by oral tradition for thousands of years, and by the time Vyaas compiled it, a lot of symbolic gestures were hyperbolized by Vyaas. I think a perfect visual example of something like that is illustrated in the Tim Burton movie Big Fish. When you pass on a story from one person to another, details are hyperbolized based on what another person says, and the size of Ghatokacha becomes gigantic, when he was probably just an abnormally large person. Hyperbole is commonly found in literature.

While Mahabharat cannot be used as a historical document, it could be an asset to look at a cultural heritage that has been passed on for thousands of years. Just like the Bible should not be interpreted literally, the Mahabharat's tales should be considered with a little bit of grain of salt. When analyzing works of literature like this, the symbolism is more important than the facts.

 
Posted on 10-27-09 9:37 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Doctorbee, what you said is sensible. Except that I wouldn't compare bible with Mahabharata. The way I see it, Mahabharata is a truly great epic which can transcend Hinduism and influence the rest of the world.
 
Posted on 10-27-09 10:32 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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It is my understanding;
If Krishna wanted to cap the differences between Pandu and Kaurav, he would have done that but he dos not,  because Arjun is brother in law , he is the great orator full of logic and I will say a great philosopher and a great psephologist who can do any thing he can. Somewhere ( not trying to be bias ) trying to save gop bansi ( Brahmin ) and their greatness. How Krishna was manipulative can be seen in Geeta, where he proved it was him who created and evolve around him. 

A great epic to be read but we have not read the real Mahabharata , who ever writes it have his version .

 
Posted on 10-27-09 10:55 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Syangjali,


Healthy skepticism is good, and I agree that the first "real" mahabharata was not like it is today, since it has been written and rewritten over time. Geeta itself was inserted later, around 2000 years ago, as some claim. I am a novice and I have no way to verify or refute these fundamental claims about dates and incidences. (I don't know why you think Gopa are Brahmin?)


But, boy, this great epic has been our direct connection to our ancestors. If we can somehow go to back to our ancestors of 2500 years ago, it is likely that in one fine evening our greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandma would be listening to this story of heroism in her small hut as our greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandpa narrates what he knows to her. That's why Mahabhrata is a sacred book.

Last edited: 27-Oct-09 11:16 AM
Last edited: 27-Oct-09 11:18 AM

 
Posted on 10-27-09 9:34 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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What I can believe is small important story bloated out of proportion.

What I can not believe is supernatural powers.

 
Posted on 10-28-09 3:45 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Don't you know that Mahavarat story is hoax? Some incidents may be correct but Harry Potter style story is completely hoax.
 
Posted on 10-29-09 11:07 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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MAHABHARAT IS NOT A  HOAX. IT HAS HAPPENED. ITS THE HISTORY AND SCIETIFIC FACT. TH EONE WE SEE IN MOVIE WITH DIFFERENT KIND OF WEAPONS USED IN THE WAR MIGHT BE HOAX OR ARTISTIC IMAGINARY. BUT STORY IS REAL. READ THIS ARTICLE.

The topic of this issue is the Mahabharata war in relation to world
history and culture. We will begin the topic with a question we
received sometime back:

"In the Mahabharata, the war seemed to
have affected the whole world. We don’t find so many references to such
of a huge event in other cultures. Why are there no references to a
great world event?"

There is reference to a great war both in
the Mayan culture and in old Chinese traditions. They speak about a
huge war that happened long, long ago; but they give no details. They
only knew that such a war had occurred.

After any war two things
happen. In certain regions, nothing develops for a long time; and in
certain other regions everything expands very rapidly. The same thing
has happened after the Kurukshetra war. In some places everything just
stopped; there was no communication. These places became completely
isolated from the rest of the world.

You can imagine the
situation of those other kingdoms which were working under the
fifty-four kingdoms, the Aryan empire. When a huge war like this is
waged on the other side of the globe, and none of the kings ever
returned, and their armies also didn’t come back, what would be the
state of communication?

These kingdoms would have become
completely alien to everything. No one would have known what happened.
The king with his entire army went to fight in the great war, and
that's it. They just disappeared, never to be heard from again. The
agents from the ruling kingdoms no longer came to collect taxes, no
information was being sent from the world capital. Suddenly these
former colonies are isolated and free. They don't have to pay taxes
anymore, nor do they have to be subservient.

Naturally the new
king would try to make a lot of indigenous effort to put forth their
own culture. And if there were any texts left that said his grand
father was a slave of Kaikeya, he would just burn it. They wouldn't
want to keep such information.

The same thing happened in the
modern World War, which was actually just a war around the world. But
the Mahabharata war was one massacre at one single place, and nobody
went back. None of the kings or soldiers returned to tell what happened.

It
is described that the cremations were done there and the rituals were
also done there. Even the widows of the other kings were adopted there
by the capital, Hastinapura. Seven different types of cremations were
done, like mass cremations, individual cremations, etc. After the
cremations, the widows were all adopted by Hastinapura there itself.
There was practically no one going back to their own countries, hardly
a single channel of communication.

We can imagine if we were a
distant country ruling under one of these fifty-four kings, the Aryan
empire, and we see no one is returning from the battle, no
communication is coming from the battle; what would we do? Immediately
we would destroy the old information, that showed us as slaves to these
Aryan kings, and emerge as a great self-manifesting empire like Egypt.
This is exactly what they did.

The destruction caused by the war
was not only external. The destruction of the war was also in the minds
of the people. After those heavy astras were used, in the minds of the
people anything subtle, anything delicate, anything perfectional was
completely burnt out. It is just like in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, till
today you find the children are disabled. How many years has it been?
It was only two primitive bombs. They were so gross and physical, but
the radioactivity of that is still being seen today.

Then we can
understand, according to the descriptions within the Mahabharata, what
was the destruction of the Brahmastras used in the war. What was the
Agni-astras they were using? What was the power of the wind in the
Vayu-astra? It was not only blowing in Kurukshetra, it was blowing all
over the planet. What would have happened to the people’s minds because
of the diffusion of all these energies?

Everything became lost.
Naturally people would not even be able to think that they were
serving, or they had been paying tax to the Aryan kings of such and
such countries. The whole thing had no meaning any more.

This is
known as the "dark period" after the Mahabharata war.
Kathacharit-sagara has stories about this dark time. In the Tamil
literature also it discusses this period. There was a dark period in
between where no one knew what happened. Only the thieves, either
through ship or through land, were ruling the world. In Tamil it is
known as "kalapirar kalam" which means the time of the unknown kings,
unknown rulers. The Tamil literature gives 3,000 years for it. And then
the Cheras, Cholas and Pandiyas came to power. In between it was
completely dark. And these Cheras, Cholas and Pandiyas were actually
descendants of the original Cheras, Cholas and Pandiyas who took part
in the Mahabharata war.

The Chola king was the one who ran the
kitchen for the Pandavas. That is there in the Tamil literature. Those
people who ran the kitchen, they were not just cooks; they were all
soldiers. They went to help in the war and when the division of work
was given, they were given the kitchen. So they were cooking. There are
hundreds of Tamil verses glorifying that king who cooked for the
Pandavas during the Mahabharata war. It is there in the Tamil
literature.

If this war never happened, if Kurushetra was only
symbolic of the body, mind and senses; why would this Aryan king have
spent twenty years of his ruling time in the North cooking for someone
else. These are clear proofs. There was a dark time in between. The
dark time was nothing but the reactions of the war. After the dark
time, those who emerged powerful were not all the authentic rulers.
Some were descendants, but most were just those who utilized this
opportunity to gain power. This is why it is not mentioned in other
cultures, it is not recorded. A great war is mentioned, but no details
are given.

Even in the mythology of the Greeks it is there, only
the time is looking different. The time frame does not look like it is
the Mahabharata war, but the great Achilles fighting and other such
stories of Greek mythology have a very close similarity to stories from
the Kurushetra war. In Greek mythology some of these stories are
internally dated much before the time of the Kurushetra war. The reason
is because they wanted to have a separate identity, therefore they told
it as though it happened at a much more ancient time. It may sound like
mythology, but its just the histories which have been handed down from
the Kurushetra war by the bards and entertainers.

The bards and
entertainers were not killed. This is an important point in
understanding how this history has spread. At that time, war meant that
during every evening they had theater, they had dance, they had jokers,
etc. They had all varieties of entertainment, and none of these
entertainers were killed. That was the rule according to
dharma-shastra, they were not supposed to be killed. Everyone died on
the battlefield of Kurukshetra, but all of these bards, poets and
entertainers lived. This is how the stories were spread.

The
people who did street dances and folk dances, poetry and songs, they
all went back. But because the armies and kings were not there, they
did not reach as far as they had come from. These entertainers had
traveled along with the armies and kings, from distant lands. When the
battle was finished, they had no king or army to take them back to
their homeland, which in some cases was on the other side of the world.
They traveled on their own, alone, and managed to reach some distance,
somewhere. They did not make it home to their own countries, but they
traveled as far as they could go alone. And when they stopped, unable
to go any further, there they would have searched for some patron to
perform for.

They must have been highly impressed with this war.
Whatever had happened, whatever they saw, the battles between the
heroes on both sides; it had impressed them so much. Naturally they
would dramatize this and make stories of wars, of great battles, of
what they had just witnessed.

In this Great war, who would have
come back? Only the entertainers; the nandis, vandis and mahatis; those
people who woke up the king’s everyday. They are the one's who lived to
spread these stories. When their kings died they would leave. This was
the tradition. The king goes to the battle with a full entourage . If
the king is killed in the second day of the battle, the king who killed
him takes his army. This was the system in those days. This was not the
case for those who made a pact; like Dhristadyumna was in a pact with
the Pandavas. His army would not go to Duryodhana. But those individual
kings who came to the help the Pandavas, if the king is killed then
everything that he has, including his ornaments, dress and animals,
belongs to the king who killed him. Actually his country also belongs
to that king. That was how the war was fought. Everything including the
ornaments he was wearing, his armor, they belong to the winner. Only
his astras won't be taken, because astras won’t serve one unless you
have done the proper upasana. The astras will go back to the rishi or
the deva who has given them. This was the rule of war.

Once
their king was killed, what would the entertainers do? They would not
continue sitting there glorifying their dead king while the war was
still continuing. As soon as their king died, they would leave the
battle field. So for them, the outcome of the war was not even known. 
But when they left they had nothing, no escort, no entourage; they were
alone. So they would travel as far as they could and as quickly as they
could, until they reached whatever place they could find. They would be
looking for a new patron. And if they found one, the first thing they
will say is, "Have you heard? There was a war!" Once they have found a
patron they will start performing. But the war was still running, and
they would not want to be involved in politics, so to protect
themselves they will begin, "Long, long ago..." And that would begin
the dramatization of the Great War. This is how the information spread.
You can find in every ethnic culture in the world, without fail, there
is discussion of a Great War. How does that come about? It may not go
by the name Mahabharata, but the great war is there, everywhere.

There
is an entire culture whose literature is based around crying, the
Sumerian culture. All of their ancient writings are the cries of women
who have lost their husbands in the war. Those who can read ancient
Tamil will see that their script is almost identical, it is similar to
the Dravida alphabets; and even the meanings of the sentences can be
understood, it is so similar.

Their texts are saying the same
thing as the Mahabharata. A city was built, there was gambling, another
city was burnt, a lady was insulted, and because of that there was
fire. The order may not be the same, but the elements are identical.
After the war, there was crying by the widows. And this crying is the
substance of the Sumerian writings. Each song is a cry. It is the same
thing as found in the Mahabharata. There is a chapter in the
Mahabharata, "the crying of the queens in the war after the kings
died". It is identical. Everyone is talking about this same great war.

Even
in regards to geography, the ancient cultures are speaking the same
thing. There is always mention of a river that is running on four sides
of a mountain. They may make the map based on their own idea of how the
river is coming down from the mountain, but the substance is the same.
They may not understand that it is referring to the four branches of
the Ganga which go to the four different levels of the universe, but
they have the basic concept. In China it is there. In the Maya culture
it is there. This is the same concept as found in the Bhagavatam and
other Vedic texts.

There are many other parallels between the
world cultures, pointing to a common source. Symbolically the Swastika
is found all over the world - in Native American tribes, in Europe, in
ancient India. Hitler was trying to revive the old Germanic and Norse
tales of the Aryan kings, but he failed to understand the entire
tradition. The Swastika represents life, but he chose to reverse it,
thus signifying death. Even linguistically, the Indo-European
languages, such as Sanskrit, Latin, Greek and their many derivatives,
have countless similarities. This all points out that there was
originally one culture, one civilization. The Great War described
throughout the world is the Mahabharata war.

One may ask, "Why
don't the other countries present it in the exact same way?" It is
because they were countries working under the fifty-four kings. They
were subservient to the Aryan empire, and this war made them free. It
was their chance to rewrite the history, to make their civilization the
center of time.

The rulers in Hastinapura allowed it to happen
by their negligence. Parikshit Maharaja did not function as an emperor
of the world for a long time, and as a result there was no unification
of the countries done under him. And after him, Janamejaya spent his
whole life trying to kill the snakes, until finally he became sick of
everything and left the kingdom. Because of this the Aryan kings became
weak.

According to Kathacharit-sagara, after the dark period it
was Bhima’s grandsons who sprung to power from Ujjain and other places.
It was in their line that Vikramaditya later came. In Arjuna's line
there was no powerful descendant, although there were some in
Kundinapura. But their line quickly became diffused. The Indonesian
city, Yogyakarta, previously known as Yajna-karta, was ruled by Bhima’s
grandson. It was there that he performed one thousand yajnas, and that
is how the city was named. That was much after the war.

In some
places the remnants of Vedic culture are more powerful. Their presence
is felt more directly. But in other places the remnants are faint and
more difficult to perceive. Just like the Sun worshippers of Japan.
Previously it was part of a huge land mass in the pacific, but by the
movement of the land and the sea it has become a tiny island. In that
ancient land, they were worshippers of the Sun god. It was the same
with the Lemurian land mass that was between Africa and India. The
Tamil literatures describe a massive land going towards the west from
the present Indian coast.

After every Yuga there is a change of
land and sea. There is one chapter on this in the pratisarga parva of
the Bhavishya Purana. It speaks about how the land and sea change by
the influence of time. This is how the flood of Noah described in the
bible occurred. It was taken as a big dissolution, as a pralaya, but it
was just the change of yugas. When Noah built the Arc, He was under the
mountain Tuhinachala. Today the Tuhinachala is now a desert. It is no
longer a mountain.

There is another case from Bhima’s time, when
he went for collection for the Rajasuya sacrifice. He went from Puri to
Burma by chariot by crossing two mountains. There was no Bay of Bengal.
And now that there is a bay of Bengal, we see two tiny islands, Andaman
and Nicobar. They were the mountains that Bhima crossed, today they are
just small islands.

It is the same situation with New Zealand.
They were not islands, but the peaks of mountains. They belonged to a
giant land mass that connected to what was the Kimpurusha Varsha. But
today they are also islands because of the land changes that occurred
when the yugas changed.

So, with all this - the Great War
followed by massive changes in the earth's geography - the
civilizations were heavily affected. Vyasadeva describes this war by
saying, “There had not been a war as heavy as this at any time in all
the lands.” He describes it this way because all of the demons and all
of the devas took part in this war at one place - Kurukshetra. It was
the heaviest war in the history, fought between universal powers. Thus
its effects were felt in all places throughout the world.

Questions and Answers

Was Sanjaya fighting in the battle of Kurukshetra, or was he with Dhritarashtra in Hastinapura narrating the events?

Sanjaya
fought in the battle, and was one of the few to return from the
battlefield. He was the last person that Sahadeva was going to kill,
but Arjuna stopped him and said, "No. He is our friend. Let him go and
report to the old, blind man, Dhritarashtra." So Sanjaya left the field
of battle. On the way he met Duryodhana before reaching Hastinapura.

But
there is also another description in the Mahabharata, where Sanjaya is
sitting in Hastinapura and speaking to Dhritarashtra while the battle
is going on. How is it possible that Sanjaya is fighting on the
battlefield of Kurukshetra, and simultaneously speaking to
Dhritarashtra in Hastinapura. It was by the mercy of Vyasa that he was
able to expand himself into two forms and act in both places
simultaneously. In those times it was not such an impossible task,
especially for those who were direct disciples of Vyasadeva. The Gita
uses the words vyasa-prasadat. By the mercy of Vyasa it was possible.

What was the role of non-vedic kings in the Mahabharata war?

In
the Mahabharat there is mention of kings who were outside the levels of
"civilization" who took part in the Great War. They would belong to the
10th, 11th, and 12th varnas.
Vedic civilization is based on four varnas (divisions of society), but
there are people who do not fit within these four. They can not measure
up to this high standard. The scriptures list a total of twelve
designations, the four vedic varnas, and eight additional non-vedic
varnas. In the battle of Kurukshetra, Duryodhana took all of the lower
fighters onto his side. It is stated that none of them fought on the
side of the Pandavas.

Their warfare was throwing rocks and other
very primitive actions. Among all of the great maha-rathas, the astra
fighters, these others were completely primitive. For example, they
would go into the elephant division of an army and make the elephants
sick. They were humans, but in comparison to the maha-rathas they were
like insects. Duryodhana sent many such people to disturb Bhima’s
movements. Bhima was such a high-class physical fighter that when he
saw these groups of people walking with rocks, trying to hit him, he
would become very much agitated. It would make him do things which were
completely inordinate.  Because he was physically too powerful, he
would get upset and throw everything everywhere. Just to disorganize
him Dhuryodhana was using them.

They would go and bite the
elephant’s legs, and because their teeth were poisonous, the elephant
would faint. This was their fighting. They wouldn't go in front of the
elephants like Bhima and hold them by the trunk to throw them. They
would walk under the elephants, and do all kinds of annoying things
like putting needles in the elephant's tail. In contrast to the great
heros fighting in the war, like Drona and Kripa, who used their
powerful astras, these others were exactly like insects.

When Parashurama went around the world killing the kshatriyas, what does it mean and who did he kill?

Parashurama
was killing ruling kshatriyas, which means rulers of all the fifty-four
countries that made up Bharata-khanda and the Aryan empire. There is an
Upa-purana which deals only with Parashurama lila. There it is
mentioned the names of whom he killed, and they are all within these
fifty-four countries.

Parashurama would kill only the kings,
nobody lesser than the kings. But the kings had their armies with them,
so ultimately everyone was killed. Afterwards there was no kshatriya
left to whom the planet could be given, so Parashurama had to give it
to the brahmanas.

When you take these fifty-four countries, it
means you have the entire world. In the rest of the world there were
only subservient kings who ruled under any one of these fifty-four.

Especially
the distant kings, like after Kaikeya (Afghanistan) up-to the middle of
Europe; those kings ruled the rest of the continents. If there was a
king ruling in Kashyapa's tank, which is today the Caspian Sea, then he
was also ruling out to the Northern and Western side of Europe. And
those people who were ruling under the Sun flag in Japan, which at that
time used to be a part of the "other land", they were ruling the
previous America, which was in the Pacific ocean.

If you take
the fifty-four countries, those kings, then you have all the six
continents. The other lands were colonies and subservient kings of
these Aryan kings. In those other lands the varnashrama was either
two-thirds or one-thirds practiced. Accordingly, those rulers were like
chiefs. They were not like kings. They collected tax, they paid tax and
then they enjoyed their ruling. For example, the present Borneo, which
used to be Parana Dvipa, or the present Fiji which which used to be the
Ramanika Dvipa. They were kings who were not in the Sun or Moon
dynasties. They were kings who were working under the rule of the
fifty-four kings.

When we say world we must also understand that
we are not talking about the world map which is presently in existence.
In the ancient times the geographical regions were completely
different. We are not talking about the present world. England was not
an island; it was a part of Europe. We are speaking of an ancient time,
long ago. The geographical regions were very different. They did not
have to travel three months by ship to go to America from Europe. That
was not the way. The way was by land through the eastern side. 

Why is varnashrama or Vedic dharma manifested only in India and not in the rest of the world?

To
understand this answer we must study the philosophy of the history of
the world, especially in reference to political geography - the various
lands and countries. At the time of Yudhishthira Maharaja the whole
planet, all the six continents, were ruled under one flag. This rule
lasted until Yudhishthira Maharaja. Before that it was even more
perfect, and the Bharata-khanda or India was from the Caspian sea up to
Cambodia; and in the north, if you want to see in regards to the
present countries, you can say from Lithuania to seven thousand miles
south of Cape Comorin (in South India). That is what is meant by
Bharata-khanda; that is fifty-four countries, the "India"; and then
there are other countries apart from India.

India was made up of
these fifty-four countries, and there were also other countries
existing at that time. In those other countries the varnasrama was not
perfectly practiced. In India (Bharata-khanda) this varnasrama
(Vaidhika-dharma) was perfectly in practice.

After the
Mahabharata war, and after the "dark age" in between there was a lot of
mixing up - people leaving from here and coming back from there. So we
find that remnants are there only in India. You can practically say
that even in India now it is not there. So, if in India it is not
there, then you can understand why in other places it is not there.
India is the heart of varnashrama, but the heart itself is in a bypass
surgery stage. So, naturally the rest of the body must be mute.

It’s
only a question of the changes of time. For example, today, due to the
spreading of Krishna consciousness, varnasharama is being more
perfectly practiced in the western countries than in India itself. So
this is all due to the changes of time. If you look back in history,
you can see that it was the other way before.

It is not that the
varnashrama belongs to one country. Civilization starts with
varnashrama. Sometimes civilization in one part of the world may be
high, and sometimes in another part it may be high. In which ever it is
high or low, the closest remnants will be seen in the heart. This is
why it looks like varnashrama, or caste, or anything is Indian; but
that’s not so.

Anywhere in the world there is natural divisions
- intellectual class, administrative class, business class and working
class. That’s what varnashrama means in its essence. However you see
it, it is only when people are civilized that it is functional; but if
they are not civilized it is not functional.

Civilized means
with a spiritual goal for life. This is the indication of civilization.
But when that goal is not spiritual, when it becomes materialistic,
then naturally the divisions of varnashrama end up as castes, tribes,
clans and the like. It again changes wherever the spiritual goal is
pinpointed in a human civilization. There the varnashrama becomes the
first sign of civilization, the division of society. But this is only
if the spiritual goal is put as the target.

When discussing
varnasrama we must understand the two classifications, namely daiva
(spiritual) varnashrama and arthika (material) or asuri varnashrama.

Daiva
varnashrama is the perfect ideal which we are talking about. Even in
ancient India, it was not that it was always daiva varnashrama being
practiced. That is always fluctuating. And sometimes it is even found
that the demons follow daiva varnashram more perfectly. For example, at
the time of Mahabali, the asuras were following daiva varnashrama more
perfectly than the devas. This is why they were successful. So there
are many details we must take into account.

The idea that
varnashrama belongs to a particular geographic area is not correct. It
is something to do with the culture of a civilized society. They may
not be having the same name, but still, it is varnashrama. If the
society is distinctly divided into the intellectual class,
administrative class, business class and working class, even though
they may not be using the Sanskrit words, it is still varnashrama. It
may not be consisting of the rituals and other things, such as
purificatory processes (samskaras) etc., but still it is the same.


 



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