September 7, 2004
Dear all:

Namaste and good wishes.

You must have read about Nepalese tragedy in Iraq that twelve of our poor innocent brothers are killed by the Islamic terrorists. May their souls rest in peace. Why such cold blooded murder? What motivates people to do such heinous crime unprovoked? The motivation comes directly from the religion of Islam. Let Quran speak for it self on non-Muslims. The attached article is posted by a group of Iranian intellectuals who cry out against rape of their Persian civilization by Islam. You may visit their web site. A short reference is also given at the end for further information. You may also forward it to interested friends. It is not about hating any body, but about being informed. Thank you very much.

Sincerely, Tilak Shrestha

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Iran Politics Club.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ahreemanxii/page7.html?mtbrand=AOL_US

Quran on Non Muslims!

This is the pure true Islam. Islam is one & there is non but only one Islam & that is the Pure Islam of Muhammad. The same Islam that: Islamic Republic of Iran, Taliban of Afghanistan, Al Qa'ida of Osama Bin Laden, Al Bashir of Sudan, Moamar Khadafi of Libya, Palestinian PLO, Al Hamas, Al Jihad, Hezbollah of Lebanon, & other Muslim Nations, Groups & Individuals around the globe preach & practice. The one & only Islam which exists. Below are the exact quotes & experts from the exact verses of The Quran, Holy Book of Islam. These verses supposed to be words of Allah (God) revealed to Muhammad The Arab Prophet, in places like the famous "Cave" that he used to go in & out of every time that Allah was connecting to him! After the revelations, Muhammad used to inform his close circle of followers Salman Farsi (a Persian Traitor who wrote Quran), Ali (The Fourth Khalifat of Rashedin & CO-Designer of Quran), & Abu Bakr (The First Khalifat of Rashedin) plus a few others, so they would write all these revelations down, add, deduct & design all the material & name it Quran, The Holy Book of Islam! Understand that according to Quran:

"All Non Muslims are Apostates, Atheists & Kafar Infidels, to fight them. & to shed their blood is Halaal & recommended."

"When conquering The Non Muslim's Land, they shall either: Become Muslim, Pay Jaziyah (ransom) to remain in their faith, or be eliminated by the sword of Islam."

Of course there was always the fourth choice for the conquered: To leave one's home & land to exile in to the foreign lands, like the Numerous of The Persian Opposition is now in Exile! The problem with many Muslims & many other Non Muslims who say: "Fundamentalism is not the true Islam", is that they have never actually read the original text of Quran on their own. They have always heard about Mullahs or other religious cleric's commentaries & interpretations of Quran! If one reads Quran on his own, he shall see the reality & the true nature of Quran as it is. The text & scripture is very clear & understandable.

During these days of crisis & uncertainty that the Neo Muslims around the world are trying to defend Islam & do a "Patch Job" & "Cover Up" on all the inhuman murders which Islam has been committed throw the centuries, it is our duty to educate ourselves so then we can educate the others about the true nature of Muhammad, Islam & Quran. Here are some of the quotes from the famous verses of Quran to Muslims & Muhammad regarding how to deal with Non Muslims & how Allah shall deal with them:

Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you, seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong doers. (Quran: Al Ma'idah: 5 - 51)

Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made your religion a jest and a pasttime. (Quran: Al Ma'idah: 5 - 57)

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jaziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued. (Quran: Al Taubah: 9 - 29)

When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. (Quran: Al Anfal: 8 - 12)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land Is: 'Execution, or Crucifixion, or the Cutting and Removing Off of hands and feet from OPPOSITE sides, or exile from the land.' That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter." (Quran: Al-Ma'idah: 5 - 33)

Mr .Romesh

I am not here to support muslims or any other religion but u look to me one of those shivasnea or VHP men yaar. Who F--Ks nepalese people by giving shelter to maoist and then shout hinduism loudly. man first go and try to stop the voilence in Nepal what u know? merely shouting is not enough, what have u seen? Ur so called VHP says maoists are controlled by china. a biggest joke and then shout we are the true representative of hindus around the world.
to all the people out here we are staying thousands miles away from home country beware of these people who are the true supporters of double face VHP, these people rae the one who have helped massacre 10000 poor nepalese in nepal .MUh me ram ram bagal me churi.

pine77,
your post reinforces my point. The rebels used relgion to justify the killings. Now, we can either try to scrutinize the situation and try to see wha the REAL reason behind those killings is or we can just listen to what these terrorists say and believe them. I, for one, would do the former.

The analogy with the crazy Christian Crusades is very apt in this context. You are trying to claim that Islam and Islam only, is inherently polluted and drives people towards killing. My point is, don't blame the religion, blame the people. And don't make the mistake of hating the whole religion because some are able to justify their heinous crimes using religion. Those crusaders justified those massacres using the bible and at the same time there are millions of missionaries around the world that are devoted to social service and they too believe that they are following the bible. the take home message being, don't hate the religion, blame the misinterpretations.

manish 321 pointed out shiva sena, what more do i need to say? Think about it, is it not possible to justify violence against non-hindus by using the Gita? The book starts with Arjuna saying that he thinks killing is wrong and throughout the book, Krishna pressures him into lifting up his bow and fighting and lo! that's what happens in the end. Arjuna goes out on a killing spree, thanks to Krishna's wise words. But, see how Gandhi, who lived by the same Gita started a non-violent revolution that drove the British out. The take-home message, again, is that there is very little inherently wrong with religion and religious verses, blame the people who interpret it differently to justify their crimes.

Never read anything intellegent and thoughtful like Pine ji's postings.. How come they don't get posted in Nepali magazines.. because they are real , easy to understand and very logical??

I am spellbound MR. pine.........really enjoyed it. I hope that laughing buddha got his answer...........such a book freak and book smarty........

way to go mr. pine...

Dear Maximum Jee, Namaste and good wishes.
Thanks for your response. However, you deliberately or otherwise missed my point and mis-quoted me. You do not have to agree with me and your criticisms are welcome. However, please do not mis-state me. Let me illustrate by commenting on your response.

�� Your post reinforces my point. The rebels used relgion to justify the killings. Now, we can either try to scrutinize the situation and try to see wha the REAL reason behind those killings is or we can just listen to what these terrorists say and believe them. I, for one, would do the former�.�

No, my posting does not reinforce your point. Matter of fact it is opposite. I agree with you and let us scrutinize the situation and see what the real reasons behind those killings are. I am incapable of going inside the brain of the terrorists. All I can do is look at the facts in the ground and make the best guess. The facts in the ground are: Quran does ask muslims to kill infidels. I have given quotes from Quran. The terrorist states that they killed Nepalese laborers because they are the worshippers of Buddha. I have also given their statement. There is a long history of Muslims attacking kafirs because of the Islamic religious requirement of the Jehad. You may read it in any standard history book. You are saying that the terrorists have other motives and using Islam as the pretext. What motives that might be? I like to know how you came to that conclusion. What facts and logic are you basing your opinion on? If I understand you correctly, you are saying that those terrorists are merely trying to scare westerners by murdering poor defenseless Nepalese. This is purely conjecture in your part; and you do ignore what actually they state. Do not you?

�� The analogy with the crazy Christian Crusades is very apt in this context. You are trying to claim that Islam and Islam only, is inherently polluted and drives people towards killing. My point is, don't blame the religion, blame the people. And don't make the mistake of hating the whole religion because some are able to justify their heinous crimes using religion. Those crusaders justified those massacres using the bible and at the same time there are millions of missionaries around the world that are devoted to social service and they too believe that they are following the bible. the take home message being, don't hate the religion, blame the misinterpretations �.�

No, the analogy is not correct. I have given the quotes from Quran against infidels. Please back up your statement by giving passages from Bible where non-Christians are to be attacked. I am against Crusade. It is the result of mainly following three factors: 1. Christianity�s delusion of being the one and only true religion, 2. Islamic aggression against Christian world, and 3. availability of ignorant European masses who can be led to war with inducement of free salvation and loot. However, the Christianity or Bible itself does not preach war. Islam does. Even if Christianity preaches hate, it does not make Islam good. It merely makes both religions bad. So what is your point? By the way, the missionaries are not doing social service for its own goodness sake. They are not Scout or Red-Cross members. They are using social service as inducement toward conversion. Therefore their basic motivation is not pure. You may read the Oath taken by Jesuit priest. It is shocking to say the least. It is available in web site. If you have problem finding it, let me know. I will send you a copy.

I am not preaching hate against any body or any religion. Where did I write so? However, I am for critical thinking and cool analysis of the facts. If you have not read Quran, perhaps you should. If you think I have posted those offensive passages wrongly or out of context, please do correct me. Given the facts I know of, I do conclude that Islam does teach attacking non-Muslims. And matter of fact I do not blame people. As I wrote before, my concern is not about blaming any body but to analyze the motivation. Because the individual Muslims are random factors and the Islamic political agenda is a constant factor. I would rather reflect upon the constant and over riding factor than chase randoms. Let me give you an example. German people are one of most productive people in the world. Their contribution in art, science, technology and philosophy are well known. However, the Germany started second world war and millions of people died. Do I say Germans are bad people? Will that serve any purpose? I think not. However, I do criticize the ideology of the Aryan racial superiority and will fight against it. Same here. (CONTINUED)

(CONTINUED)
��. manish 321 pointed out shiva sena, what more do i need to say? Think about it, is it not possible to justify violence against non-hindus by using the Gita? ... �

You are not doing yourself any favor by quoting Mr. Manish. His posting was quite incoherent and foul one. Yes, you do need to elaborate the point you are making. Can you paraphrase what Siva Sena said and why it is relevant here. Can you quote relevant passages from Shiva Sena�s publication or web site. What is your point by waving the flag of Shiva Sena? If you are saying that Gita justifies violence against non-Hindus. Then forget Shiva Sena and please give the relevant passages from Gita itself. Do not work too hard. There are none.

��. The book starts with Arjuna saying that he thinks killing is wrong and throughout the book, Krishna pressures him into lifting up his bow and fighting and lo! that's what happens in the end. Arjuna goes out on a killing spree, thanks to Krishna's wise words. But, see how Gandhi, who lived by the same Gita started a non-violent revolution that drove the British out�.�

Here you go again. You are the master of misquoting. Please read my response to Mr. Sali on Sept. 20. Krishna�s teaching is about Karma yoga, not about killing spree. When did Arjuna go on killing spree? He fought against armed Maharathis like Drona, Ashwasthama, Karna. However, the Mahabharat war itself is merely a backdrop. The message is about the Karma yoga. If you do not want to reflect on the core message of Krishna, that is your prerogative. Your ignorance hurts you, not me. It may be shocking to you but Mahatma Gandhi was not practicing Karma Yoga � Niskam karma. Because he has personal attachment for India�s freedom. He was actually practicing Sankhya yoga. The knowledge that we are all connected and whole universe is one. That is if Gandhi rise moral stake visa vie British empire then there is natural force like Gravity which will compel British to respond in higher moral plain. If he seats down in a corner, fast and suffer; then the British empire also will suffer.

��. The take-home message, again, is that there is very little inherently wrong with religion and religious verses, blame the people who interpret it differently to justify their crimes�.�

If you want to stick your head in sand, it is your privilege. They say if you do that then some other end will be exposed. Matter of fact I do not blame the people, but the ideology which makes people do bad thing. Because people come and go, but the ideology remains. If you do not want to read Quran, Islamic history of aggression and statement of Ansar al Sunna; that is your prerogative. But do not preach us that Islam does not preach hatred and war against infidels. Islam does.

As I wrote in response to Mr. Kali, you really do not have to preach tolerance to us. We are for tolerance, coexistence and brotherly love. What you need to do is talk to Muslim brothers if they are for same, condemn anti-infidel passages in Quran, and practice secular democracy in their countries. May their responses, if not mine, illuminate you. THANKS.

Everything in this discussion board can be summed up in two sentences: "The Empire's economic and foreign policy is the root cause of all evils in third world countries. If at all, it has very little to do with religion!!"

What about this Maulawis' saying this
ALLAH will still forgive a man who has murdered 100 people if he doesn�t repent then he will get his bit of the punishment for what ever he did, remember ALLAH is the All-Merciful. The Worst of all crimes isn�t killing 100 people but innovating a lie against ALLAH (prescribing partners to ALLAH)

Dear All: Namaste and good wishes.

Thanks to friends who posted in this thread: Major, Yours dipens, Gatta, GPKoirala, Sali ko bhena, Laughing Buddha, Thugged out, Money minded, Romesh, Kaali Rani, Maximum20, Manish321, Dyamn, DC Girl and Swaati Thapa.

I hope no minds and takes personally whatever we write here. Please remember it is about finding truth through discussion. If I offended any body,I do apologize. THANKS.