Hi guys,

I read through the discussions in Sajha. I appreciate how ideas are thrown back and forth to see both sides of the issues. There is something that has been on my mind for a long time. The issue I want to talk about in this platform is of homosexuality. 

First things first, I am homosexual. But contrary to what pops up in the mind of a lot people when hearing the word 'gay', I am not girly behaving. I am an average looking guy. If anyone were to interact with me or see me, they would not have a clue about my sexual orientation. However, I feel like I am done living a lie. As soon as I am done with my finals, I am breaking up with my girlfriend. I am coming out of the closet. I am thinking of confiding my sexuality to my siblings soon. I would like to tell it to my parents too but I am not sure if they will even be able to grasp the concept of 'homosexuality' without comparing me with a transexual (which I am not). 

Before any one starts off with the arguments that homosexuality is abnormal and not natural, I would like to point out a few facts. Homosexuality is found in species other than humans like bonobos, dolphins, sea horses and even fruit flies. And even if we were to consider it immoral, how does it affect the society? When two homosexuals get together, its a concensual act. No one is forcing themselves on the other person. I have the same aspirations like any other heterosexual couple. I do not want to hide my love for my partner from the society. I want to be able to live with a guy peacefully without being constantly scrutinized. 

So the question that is up for discussion is how does the current generation of Nepal feel about someone's right to love the person who is also from the same gender? I am very interested to see where this discussion goes.

 georgian_satellite,

Evangelical church site MIGHT be biased (may be a tiny bit)  . First instance the gay bowel syndrome is an outdated term. It was used in 1970s when the term for AIDS was not coined. Similarly, a lot of times people associated AIDS with being a gay person disease during 1980s. But look at the things now, AIDS is as rampant among homosexuals as well as heterosexuals (I hope you won't start the argument that homosexuals introduced AIDS into the heterosexual community to obliterate it ).

About me bringing shame to the society and thus failing to tell my parents, thats a wrong way to look at how I put things. I am not sure about telling my parents because my parents did not even attend schools. They think being gay is being a cross-dresser or transvestite (which I am not). I am not sure if they will be able to grasp the concept of what being gay means. I am sure if I have a personal conversation with them, things will be fine. I am taking one step at a time. Right now I am going to tell it to my siblings. Gradually, I will bring my parents into the loop too. And 'NO', I do not think me being gay is wrong. If you choose to ignore the biological facts and say homosexuality is a choice then I have a question for you: would you choose to strip yourself of clothes in a room full of people? Because doing so would make people point fingers at you, laugh at you, call you mentally sick, etc. Similarly, being gay in the society puts you in the pedestal. No one chooses to be constantly scrutinzed. No one wants to choose a life where they are looked down upon and discriminated. If homosexuality were a choice, I would choose to have a normal life

About the girl I am breaking up with, I think I am helping her in this case. What if go ahead with the relationship and always have desire to be with men. How fair is it to her? What if 10 years down the road, I have kids with her then I feel like I do not want any part of it. Then how fair is it to her and the kids? If I am honest with her and tell her about it, she can go on to find a even greater guy. I think this also addresses your confusion about why some people get married and then get out of it. Its because they are so much pressured by the society to follow the norm and get married to a girl, they give into the pressure. But with time, one matures and this gives them the courage to fight back with the society for their personal happiness. I do not know if it is at all convincing to you, but for me I know this is what happens.

PS: thanks terrypandi and no_quiero for addressing a lot of things I wanted to address.

 If u tell your parent u like to suck dick/like to put dick on your ass, u r curse for them. Why r u thinking abu can keep about you too only.  
I sincerely sugget u not to reveal to yr parents if u r in Nepal. You can enjoy your sex life on your way, that's secret thing,  If u r palnning to maryy man, It is impossible yr parents accepts your man as your husband/wife in family.  Telling yr parents only avoid marrying girl, nothing helps more. U can avoid marrying girl in many ways.

dbst, that is the parent you are going to be if your kid comes to confinde in you about his/her sexuality.

I am a guy who is married to another guy, this is what I am. That was how my parents accepted me. Don't tell us what YOU think about how OUR parents would react.

Actually I really didn't want to jump in this discussion seeing cublas holding this fort brilliantly, but suggesting somebody to hide his sexuality and making him to believe what he is doing wrong is not acceptable.

 dbst,

From the way you use your linguistics to address the issue and the way I do, I see we come from different spectrums in life ( in every way). I wanted to keep this thread as less verbally offensive as possible which obviously did not happen with your post. I feel like you did not have anything stronger to stay thats why you resorted to the words in your post. But then who am I to judge you.

And I have known my parents for the longest time. I know how far to push it. They have always been liberal for their time and given the time to grasp the idea of homosexuality, they will also be on the wagon sooner or later. And for this, the roles of my siblings cannot be ignored which I am very positive about. 

And I am certainly looking at sharing my life with a partner. So there will be no hiding of my sexuality. Sooner or later, the cat will be out of the box.  

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU!  It takes guts to do something like this ! I did post something like this like a long time ago and I had all the feeling that you are having right now! Coz I was in yuor shoes once....tei ho sathi keep your head up!

 Cublas, analytical approach on 'gayism' ( atleast not derogatory) but not convincing. I dont know if all gay men and women are pressurized to get married ( not in the west) and I dont think you were pressurized to fall in love with a girl whom you are dumping, betraying and cheating ( you are helping her in your own word) very kind of you Sir. You wrote, " if homosexuality were a choice, I would choose to have a normal life" that means you are telling homosexuality is abnormal. Excuse me gentleman, if you go back to your first post when you first rolled up your sleeve to throw yourself into the ring of this arguement you have told it is normal and natural. You are contradicting yourself.

OK , you broke up with your girlfriend now, told your family about your gayness (not offending term) now you have your same sex partner( hopefully brawny and brainy). As days go by scenario changes, so does our mind. what if you get old and want someone to look after you? what if you want to have a baby with this man? like Elton John. what if you dont want to adopt baby but want from surrogating? what if surrogate mother fights for surrogacy right? are you prepared for all these 'ifs and buts'?

 georgian_satellite, 

Thanks for allowing me to clear my arguments. When I say normal life, I was seeing life from your paradigm. And good job with picking up on the minute details. To me the term 'normalcy' is ill defined. Its twisted and turned as one pleases. Therefore, nothing is absolutely normal and there is not a set criteria to define something as abnormal either. For instance, there is a guy from Ethiopia in my school who uses half a jar of pepppers when stir fry is made. To him its normal, to me that is beyond my comprehension. Its abnormal to me. Thus, it shows that the term 'normal' differes from perspective to perspective. To me , I am extremely normal. I had nothing to do with my sexual orientation. If I have the genes that predispose to my sexual orientation, then I can't help it. Its not something I picked up. 

Again, I agree american society is liberal compared to Nepal but still a lot hypocrite when it comes to sexuality. Further, I do not think anywhere in the world the idea of one being homosexual is accepted with open arms. I think it will take time. Like acceptance of the people from every race, homosexuality will also need time to find a respectable place in the society. Keep an open mind to this issue. Perhaps 30 years down the road, you will be advocating for gay rights and a chance for gay couples to live in the society like everyone else. My point is, me sleeping with another guy is not going to tempt you to sleep with a guy too, right?   Then be comfortable with your sexuality. We, humans, have the tendecny to fear the unknown and right now homosexuality is going through the same phase. We are fearing the unknown. Look at history, the amount of opposition that was done when the idea of educating women was brought forward, again the idea of giivng women equal rights as men, etc. 

About babies, you are right - there will be issues with it. But I do not mind adopting a child. There are already millions of babies forced into the foster care system, if I am able to make the life of one of them better- I will be content. It's all about making the positive changes, no matter how small. 

 georgian_satellite,

I missed a thing when I was replying. Having a girlfriend does not mean I committed my life to her. We were DATING each other. And, yes I was in denial about my sexuality which led me to believe that perhaps if I started dating a girl, these feeling would go away. But apparently not.  And there are tons of couples in heterosexual relationship who grow apart and terminate the relationship. I do not see how my case is any different. 

Thanks

 Cublas:
*Normalcy : What normal people/society around you think
I respect how you want to live. I used sharp word to remind you the things that pinch your parents heas enery moment ans tha is reality what normal people think. And i know how parents feel when their son declares " i m gay.. " . I just want to stress you Homosexuality is nor normal , its obvious abnormal. But you can hide this disease without hurting your parents. I just want to say we have to compromise a lot  and you have do same. telling your parents " I like man to live with" and i do not like girl"  - big difference although it is same for u.  

For me i can imagine having x with man ( i can change mind) , u can change mind too. If u r more progressive about sexual right , u have very limited space in the world live as normal life. Ihave too many disease too, but hiding is best option for society.

In previous , i wanted to say ( but type fkd) " thinking about yourself is selfisness, u have to compromise for your parents happyness anf feelings too."

 dbst,

Even the nastiest things can be said in a very mild tone and respectable way. So you can't be rationalizing how you responded before. However, I do appreciate you coming around and with a very appreciative tone to discuss this matter. I have reiterated this before, even Amercian Psychiatric association does not term homosexuality as an illness. None of the medical schools (to the best of my knowledge) to date call it an illness, so I am assuming you have a strong case or research that indicates homosexuality as an illness. Otherwise, you are pulling your facts out of thin air and that does not make sense to me.

Regarding you being able to imagine having sex with a guy, may be you are somewhere in the middle of Kinsey scale (read that you might be able to better explore your sexuality). Rather than calling homosexuality an illness, keep an open mind about it. Analyze the facts about it and read the counter arguments against it. You are a rational being. Based on your research draw a conclusion. I do not believe you know much about homosexuality when you go ahead to call it a disease unless you have come across a study that says so. In that case, send it to me, I would love to read it. When scientists and researchers ,who know more than any of us, are hesitant to call it a disease- it will be wrong and arrogant to call homosexuality an illness.   

Again, normalcy is a relative term. For you I am not normal. However, for pro-gay people, I am as normal as the person next to me. The definition of normalcy does not prove anything. And when it comes to my parents, I am the best person to know how they might feel. I have always shared this extra-ordinarily close bond with both my mom and dad. They have always been my pals. So, I know deep down they will come around. And, NO I am not going to live a lie. Can you imaigne yourself living with a guy - day in and day out? Perhaps not, because that is not what you want. Its the same for me too. 

Anyways, thanks for your post.

 @Cublas 
    Don't let anyone tell you what you can or can't do. People need to mind their own business. I am proud to have an open (in sajha) nepali gay brother. I am heterosexual myself. I am glad you have decided to start this thread. 
 

Homosexuality is a developmental disorder defined by the failure to establish a permanent bond with a member of the opposite sex. Psychologist Richard Cohen, in "Coming Out Straight: Understanding and Healing Homosexuality" (2000) argues it is caused when a male child fails to bond with his father. By having sex with men, the adult gay is trying to compensate for father-love denied in adolescence.

    Cohen was gay and is now married with three children. He attributes lesbianism to a woman's reaction to being rebuffed or abused by her father. He has assisted hundreds of homosexuals, but is under constant attack for undermining the gay political agenda, (i.e. to redefine societal norms.)

    Psychiatrist Jeffrey Satinover has pointed to another cause of homosexuality. A 1990 survey of 1000 gays shows that an older or more powerful partner physically assaulted 37% of them before the age of 19. ("Homosexuality and American Public Life," 1999, p.24). In addition, according to Anne Moir in "Why Men Don't Iron," some men may be "born gay" due to foetal hormone imbalances. They seem to be a minority. Playboy and the (Homo) Sexual Revolution  By Henry Makow Ph.D. 2003

 I have been reading this thread for the last couple of days, and its been both interesting and educational. It is really nice to see that so many of us are accepting of difference, I see this has a HUGE lap between our parents' generation and ours. I mean it's ridiculous that anytime the word "gay" comes up my parents and people from their generation immediately say "out of their mind people" in a really derogatory manner (I can't recall the word they use for this). 

 

Cublas, wow I really applaud you for coming out, even if this is a forum I cannot imagine it to be an easy thing to do. I wish you all the best in life, and hope you have the energy to deal with things as they come up. I think you are doing a great job explaining your prospective, a lot of time it is harder for people on our side of the fence to really understand what it means to be gay. 

 

Georgina_satellite, I am sorry but the argument you made that homosexual behavior leads to various health conditions makes no sense and is not well supported. Heterosexuals are as likely to suffer from these sexual conditions if they choose to have erratic sexual life-style. Do homosexuals have higher incidences of these condition b/c they have erratic sexual behavior or does not being easily accepted in the society make them hide things, not have proper education of sexual safety and therefore that's what leads to it? What are your sources? There are certain population of heterosexuals that have higher incidences for these disease too. What does that mean?

 

dbst you are being really harsh, and it's not nice. From what I understand Cublas wants to have a really back and forth argument and your attitude does not help anyone. It does not help you, because as soon as we see your tone it's like "ahh ok this person has nothing valuable to add so he/she's just adding some distraction". 

 

For all the people who claim homosexuality is not normal, how do you know? Did you guys wake up one fine morning and tell yourself "Hmm it sure looks like a good day, from now on I am only going to be attracted to person of opposite sex" ? I know I certainly didn't, I always knew I liked someone from the opposite sex. Norm is anything that is more prevalent, sure we as heterosexuals have a higher population so we regard ourselves as the "norm". But what if homosexuality was really the norm? If I cannot explain to myself why I am attracted to opposite sex, how can I expect a homosexual person to answer why they are attracted to same sex. I mean isn't it the same with you guys who claim homosexuality is not the norm? Or did you really wake one day and say you MAKE THE DECISION to be heterosexual? 

 

Then I hear the argument that ahh you homosexuals cannot have children. So what? A lot of us heterosexual couples have problems conceiving, what does that mean? Are we worst or same as homosexuals? There are so many children out there in need of a good family, these couples will make it work. The biggest thing any family can have is love, and if two people love each other unconditionally and are happy at the end that's all that matters. One of our friends is a  gay couple who had a baby via surrogate. They are hands down one of the best parents I have seen, and their little boy is amazing. 

 

I do not completely understand what it means to be homosexual and I will never because I have always been attracted to opposite sex. But I do have respect for any two people who love each other and choose to lead a happy life. It does not matter if you are gay or straight, we all aspire to similar things in life. We all want love, acceptance, and a family. It does not matter if you are gay or straight, (bisexuals  I don't know, I completely don't understand that one). We all have a right to be happy. When I chose to be with my bf, I did not have to go to the gay community and say "hmm he sure looks like a fine boy, can I marry him"?. That sounds pretty ridiculous, does not it? But then why do we heterosexuals have a right to tell gay people who they can and cannot be with. Live your life, everyone deserves a genuine chance at love, and that's what works for you it's fine. 

 

Cublas, my heart goes out to you though. As soon as you are a little "different" from what the society accepts you are going to face many road blocks. I wish you the best and hoping your parents will understand the best they can.

 

Its nice to see the posts are still being made here. I have a test tomorrow so I just came here for a quick browsing. I am happy to see how ideas are being thrown back and forth. 

@rid,

You are making valid points by bringing in nurture to this whole issue. I was hopoing someone would do that. I will respond to you when I get a little breather from my schedule. But thanks for bring nurture into this. For now, please understand, being 'gay' has to do with both nature and nurture (in some cases). I will elaborate it later.

@smile_07 and vhootee, thanks for you posts. Seeing your posts makes me estatic that our generation is so accepting when it comes to homosexuality. Something that will keep my energy up so that I can pull off this all nighter .

Just for fun ; only benefit i saw being gay is you will not have problem of Constipation. :D
Sorry I am anti-gay! Be free to call me Nepali Taliban but my culture never taught me to date a man being a man.

 Wow! I am flabbergasted that sympathy and support is still pouring in for Cublas. This would definitely help him to catapult to the next stage where he is bit reluctant to be and serve his gay interest vigorously LOL. I am also surprised to read from some so called 'westernized' people, " I am proud to have an open nepali gay brother". What can you see when, the higher the monkey climbs up the tree? the more of his arse. Isnt it ?.

Smile_07, I dont think its because of lack of openness and sex education that homosexuals are more likely to suffer from sexual diseases than heterosexuals because the survey was done in european countries where same sex marriage is legalized and I believe they are one step ahead than the US and rest of the world in sex education. The reason could be unnatural sexual behaviour and filthyness. For example; vaginal lubrication, anus doesnt product any fluid like that does it?. Do you think eating foods from other organs rather than from mouth would be same and as easy to digest?

"What if homosexuality was really  the norm?". Well, gay activities would be extremely high and there wouldnt be 7 billion people enjoying their lives in this beautiful world today. In a worse case scenario you, yourself wouldnt be here today and writing in sajha LOL. Have you ever thought of dinosaurs why they disappear? because they were as stupid as gay people.

@cublas: You should always follow whatever makes you happy and not worry about what ignorant bigots say about you and your choices. That includes your parents, relatives and friends. If they don't accept you for who you are then it means they don't want you to be happy, which I think is very very selfish on their part. Their standard of happyness should not dictate how you should live your life. There were times when inter caste/ inter racial marriages were frowned upon, but has not gotten greater acceptance. There will always be people with backward/oldschool mentality, even in this day and age, who will oppose and hate your choices; however, there will also be those who will always support you. Don't let the hateful words bring you down, you can't stop fools from blurting out bigoted discriminatory remarks, ignore them, live happy and be good.

chaurey talking from experience? ;)

@cublas
C/O Chaure :
Happyness does not mean fullment your personnal needs only. You can not be happy making your parents/relative mad. If u want to be happy ignoring your society, you are absolutely wrong. I used define on same way when i was teen. But life is so complex and not good to judge parents love to you for your unnatural needs.
IN this thread you are neither looking for suggestion nor listining other's opinion but you seems counting gay in Sajha.
For your parents( u do not care what other 99% people surrounding think) hapyness is not only you althiouth u think u deserve 100% but social dignity plays higher role than yr personnal interest. You can not prepare your parents facing questions/(asked or unasked! propar word always afraid of facing question and/or not getting chance to answer) about his son's abnormality. Whatver you think but people behind you/your parents are talking about your unnatural way of pleasure( normal peole do the same stuff in secret but that;s secret but people always wondering about asss u accept or not,) if if your happyness is associated with your parent's happyness too, you have to be carefull, not so smart like ass right activist. I just want anybody lives happily without making curse to thier near and dear family.