1) Have we discussed whether or not to have children, and if the answer is yes, who is going to be the primary care giver?
2) Do we have a clear idea of each other’s financial obligations and goals, and do our ideas about spending and saving mesh?
3) Have we discussed our expectations for how the household will be maintained, and are we in agreement on who will manage the chores?
4) Have we fully disclosed our health histories, both physical and mental?
5) Is my partner affectionate to the degree that I expect?
6) Can we comfortably and openly discuss our sexual needs, preferences and fears?
7) Will there be a television in the bedroom?
8) Do we truly listen to each other and fairly consider one another’s ideas and complaints?
9) Have we reached a clear understanding of each other’s spiritual beliefs and needs, and have we discussed when and how our children will be exposed to religious/moral education?
10) Do we like and respect each other’s friends?
11) Do we value and respect each other’s parents, and is either of us concerned about whether the parents will interfere with the relationship?
12) What does my family do that annoys you?
13) Are there some things that you and I are NOT prepared to give up in the marriage?
14) If one of us were to be offered a career opportunity in a location far from the other’s family, are we prepared to move?
15) Do each of us feel fully confident in the other’s commitment to the marriage and believe that the bond can survive whatever challenges we may face?

-NY Times.

I totally agree with you Sajhauser..it's the man who needs to balance and respect both relationship...That's the key...If a man doesn't respect his parents, he cannot expect the wife to respect them and vice versa..

I also agree but with one caveat: putting too much pressure on any one person, whether it me the man or the women, to make any of these aspects work, can exonerate the other one of their responsibilities.One person feels the extra-burden, and then turns 40 and realizes this is not the life they wanted. By that time, they prolly dont care of the consequences of doing anything and then walk out on the relationship and the whole marriage is ruined.

Marriage is a balancing act - don't expect the other one to do things you are not willing to do yourself. And I mean this across the board not just on any of the points raised above. Eg if you dont like taking the trash out, don't expect the other person does or should. Likewise, if you don't like the other person's friends or family, don't expect them to like yours.

Good afternoon tisa jyu ,
getting back to your statement especially last ones. i would have to say that i disagree with:

1. may be all 15 or et al does not apply in arranged marriages. but i can see 1, 3, 4 ,6 , 8 , 11, 13 and 14 being very much relevant.

2. arranged marriages now is not like before @ least from what i have seen. its been totally left upto guys and gals involved to decide on it. so all of those mentioned above in 1 comes in play. and now its notl like before as well that girls are staying home et al. . so obviously they have to think about who is going to stay home if they are having kids @ all. and all that things

3. marriages are rarely in equals. common. you tend to say if you have a phD then you have to find a PhD for your mate. and if you make 6 figures you need your partner to be the same .. common if you start thinking in that fashion then its not MARRIAGE that i know or seen. its more like a business relationships.

4. you do not have to live together. but these questions are contemporary.

i will add couple more:
a. some females do not want to have kids
b. they are against breast feeding
c. they want to work. carrear is more important.

so, husband has to chip in may be he would like to be the stay home dad (O:
just my thought

Captain, about the issue of women empowerment in Nepal and Pakistan, I am at loss because I have limited experience of reading about Nepali women.
But the issue of Muktara Mai of Pakistan and her crusade changed the law in a Muslim country.
I think Nepali women have a long way to go .

sajhauser and sndy,
now time to poke hole in your arguments.

" chamero ko kahani tha chha hola ni hoina"
" testo dui tirai milauna khojne husband haru will be " na ta swasni ko huna sakchan na ta bau/aaama or the family ko nai huna sakchhan"

now from my perspective
these things needs to be communicated to "female/male" prior to marriage. what he/she is getting into. not the rosy picture of life. but the baggage that the GUY/GIRL is bringing with him/her. say his/her family obligations and relationship. what is his/her expectation and role in family. you NEED NOT KNOW ANYONE TO ACCEPT THEM. YOU JUST NEED TO BE OPEN. if you STOP PASSING JUDGEMENTS on people then it would be lot simpler. and EGO will be a root cause of ALL misunderstandings. IF you can bow down and say sorry for even something you have not done "KISSA KHATAM" . if either partner is willing to do that then there is a PERFECT bondage (O:

just my dreams (O:

===================================================
and as always
what do i know (O:

Tisa - Thanks for the response. It was very interesting to read people's perceptions about the causes of inequality on that thread. For some reason I got the impression that you might have a different perspective - not so much about the article itself but the points raised in some of the posts on the reasons for such empowerment, or the lack of. Not being a woman, I didn't want to prod on and come out with guns blazing - I didn't think the intrusion would be appreciated. But I was surprised that some of the comments were not challenged more seriously by other women who might have had a different perspective.


Thapap -

"As always, what do I know?"

Hey, quite a bit on this subject, I must say :)

Captain,it all depends on the back ground and upbringing you come from.And to some extent the women themselves have to come forward.Not to generalise the matter,I can give an example of Nepali women in USA (40s,30s and also 20s) giving much importance and "Dhaak"(Did I pronounce it right???)to what their husband,son or boyfriend does rather than what they do.
If this is a situation of women living in USA with all its opportunities and EEOE, I can't imagine what it must be like in Nepal with all its social,religious and caste barrier.

I don’t think a person with a sane mind would not want to be a part of a family; after all it’s a human nature to want to be a part of the society. Well… things will be beyond control if the relationship has already become sour and people have already given up on each other. But in the beginning, I think everyone would want to be a part of a family.

I think because of the difference in attitude, some people get along and some don’t. The question thapap is, for how long can a person say sorry for the mistakes one has not committed? There is limitation to everything. You might want to find a girl who can tolerate everything :P But I don’t think it’s healthy to tolerate everything as it discourages the change needed in the society.

Yes, problem does arise in a family if the “middle-person” cannot play her part. I don’t mean to generalize, but most guys cannot open their mouth in front of their parents. I think sometimes a lot of problem could be solved, if one could accept his/her own incapability and take some measure on improving her weakness. If one expects his wife to get along with his parents (despite of the differences in attitude between wife and parents), then he will have to play a big role in improving the relationship. But if the middle person doesn’t bother on walking that extra mile, then relationship deteriorates. And it will of course require cooperation from each member, not only from the spouse. Like they say, “ek haat le tali bajdaina”, even the parents need to cooperate to some extent. Yes, it’s not that easy when there is difference in attitude!

Another interesting thread. :-)

Well, the way the article is written makes the questions seem like an interview protocol. Important questions, notheless. Even before saying anything on the content of these questions, my usual reaction to articles like these is - WHO is the audience for the article?
Obviously, the article is targeting educated, dual earning, urban couples. Well, I should say enlightened rather than educated couples cuz having a PhD or an MBA is not equivalent to empowering your partner with a sense of equality.

I see some writers here hypothesizing and speculating all kinds of things and trying to relate these ideas to Nepali couples. But we forget that Nepal is not just Kathmandu and the elite and priviledged people who live there. Much of Nepal is still very rural - economically, geographically and most of all socially. Yes, the so-called modern couples of today can probably try to incorporate these questions into their lives. But when we think of the rest of Nepal, even the fundamental rights of women are violated everyday, so the question of her asking her husband these questions is out of the question. And the men, who are still in the neanderthal stage of human evolution, don't do any "asking" -- they do the "commanding." So, these questions go right out the window.

hahahahahaha....
sajhauser wrote

....Communication and understanding are two obvious methods of resolving relationship problems, but the problem can become a mountain out of a molehill if one doesn’t know how to communicate or if he/she doesn’t have capacity to understand (because of personality disorders).

u seem to have quite a strong grip in this personality disorder thingy. i know where your argument is coming from but does it always have to be this very reason for misunderstanding? :P


I think, generally, a man has to act as a middle-person between his wife and his parents (or friends), and vice versa, because he is the one who understands both the parties.


what about women? can't they take the initiative and try to bind relationships together. agree that man knows both the parties. but what if both the parties have 'personality disorders' (in your terminology)? :P


IMO, it all boils down to understanding, trust and respect for each other and for the families. and of course, it should be mutual. moreover and most importantly,sometimes, one may need to put his/her ego under check and give in to others for the greater benefits of the family. "tali ek hatle bajdaina", but one hand can always go looking for the other and embrace it, if the latter is not ready to take the initiative. euta le purba arko le paschim heri rakhyo bhane ta ek le arko lai dekhna pani sakidaina, tali bajaaune kura ta parako ho, haina ra? :P

LooTe

My little problem called 'molehill' can outgrow into a 'mountain' if I have been deprived for too long. I need to communicate that to a miss 'congeniality' as soon as possible before I get institutionalized. Wish me luck HEHE! ;P

"I don’t mean to generalize, but most guys cannot open their mouth in front of their parents."

You just did! :) Albeit, I am sure, with good intentions - I am happy to give you TBOTD :) Do I sense some hard feelings against men there?

Just wondering ...

:)

But, like my bud Thapap, what do I know?

Loote, I thought sajhauser has said "vice versa" in there. Doesn't that mean the statement holds good for both husband and wife? I thought she meant it. Sajhauser, is that what you were saying?? Maile ta tyahi bujheko hai...!!

:-)

camo bro,
u may be right, but according to my understanding she is generalizing it a bit and is being more biased towards women( she being one :P)...let her break the ice...let's see what's her say on this :P

LooTe

Tisa - Thanks for the response.

One thing I wanted to point out was this is an article in the style section and not in the op-ed one of the Times. I have often had to take things in the matrimonial sections of *any* newspaper with a grain of salt - and parts of this article are no exception.

Aiight, I had fun in this thread, am off to my next adventure now :)

Nice talking to you all - have a good one!

sajhauser,
we r talking about marriage sharing and commitment. it has to b both ways. when i say about saying sorry its both. but one should not b keeping tabs but rather doing whatever it takes to sweep the other person away from the floor (of course with love). nepali ko ukhan chha ni "bhareko hanga nihunchha" . aafno manche ko aagadi nihurera koi pani sano hudaina. @ least that's the way i think and act.

of course bhane ni "EGO" in a relationship any cannot flourish love. ani if one can understand fully then parents and accepting them those does not even come in picture.. they will b an issue when this EGO and selfish attitude "i want u all for myself" why u need to do anything for them
HOINA RA????

=====================================================
as always what do i know (O:

bihe r jagir same ho ...for some dumb ass - Nytimes ko desma divorce rate 50% plus.

haha!!!!!!!!! there is no use doing the pratical study and discussion before marring... or after marriage over here.....

coz there is 70% chance of divorce...... in every married couples......

LOL

-Rockend

Yes camo, I meant it for both the parties both men and women in general in a utopian society.

loote and thapap, I made the statements based on the assumptions that we’re brought up in nepali culture and the marriage is not an arranged one. And I am not even talking about relationship between the couples. I assume that there is a good relationship and understanding and trust between them. So in our society, even in love marriage, females reside with her inlaws after getting married. In that case, doesn’t it become more important for a man to become a good mediator? There will be a level of trust between people who’ve know each other for sometime. I don’t think people can readily trust or love or respect someone based just on relationship (between inlaws). It takes time to build a real relationship….time that has to be spent communicating.

Of course, I’m more biased towards women, because our society is more biased towards men and I’m just trying to balance it out :P

Captain, what can I say…almost all men I’ve known so far are tongue-tied in front of their parents. Maybe I haven’t lived enough to see more men :P

sajhauser,
mediator/facilitator is exactly what causes the whole problem. one should be able to determine and work on the expectation if needed.

as soon as 3rd party is involved in any kind of relationship it causes the harmony and perfect balance to misalign.

just my 2 cents

=====================================================
as always
what do i know