[This posting flagged as inappropriate]

Bob,

You turned out to be a gold digger. I am impressed with and benefiting from your persistence and research.

Like I said, there is a general consensus among the scholars and politicians that the study on the diversity of our people is incomplete. NEFIN folks acknowledge that too. The information you brought here just gives a face to that agreement.

I sure will add ‘Managi’ in my list and share this anecdote with my audience.

As I said, my major argument is that the founding principle of our nation-state should be that there shall be no discrimination of any kind to any nationalit irrespective of their size, distribution and mobility.

Your outrage and the information you brought here make that point more strongly than I could have made without.

Nepe

Yasto maobaadi ko talk "Brainwashing comment" sunna jaane ta sabai murkha nai hunn. Period. If anyone of you think your time is precious, yasta maobaadi ko talk nasune hunchha. Bhir bata ladna lako goru lai ram ram bhanna sakinchha kaandh thapna ta sakinna, so maile pani sabailai ek choti sachet gardeko matra ho. Rest, your choice.

As much as I wanted to stay out of putting in even a single comment into this ignorant thread anymore, finally this pompus fool aka Nepe, acknowledges that the Manangis can indeed be a part of the NEFIN list.  Pseudo scholars who formed the list probably never once realized that there would be an outrage amongst the educated Manangi and Mustangi folks who would definitely be surprised in seeing other minorities make the list but themselves (and who created these lists classifying minorities?? Some damn Koiralas, Sharma, Sherpa, Wangdabi Bhote (WTF), etc....Talk about equal representation!!  AND do these outsiders even know anything about us at all?  I doubt it since our community is real closely knit together hardly allowing any outsiders to access the inside). 

Bob's below words surely hit the nail on the head in regards to adding the Manangis on the list of indigenous peeps and giving it the distinct recognition the group truly deserves: 

Suggestion to Nepe:

Remove the 3 different category of Thakali and put Manage on the list. Not that I want to start another war with the Thakali, it just makes more sense and fairness to the people around the region.

Exactly what the Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis learned by undergoing through it under the British, we will learn it in a few years down the road if we take that Federalism route, that is based on dividing land for different ethnic groups, and that lesson will be "divide and conquer". But for us, it will be too late for us as a disintegrated nation at that point to apply the lesson on anything good.
Instead of this kind of fruitless Federalism talk, we need a forum on how to restore the law and order in our country and how we as common people can erect a government power that can address the mandate of the common people. The better option is to maintain the existing heterogeneous society with people of different races, religion, professions coexisting in geographically diverse terrains containing diverse natural resources vital for the well-functioning of Nepal.
As far as administrative division goes, we do not need to re-invent the wheel. We can creatively and objectively debate with acceptable reasons on whether to continue to have 14 zones and 75 districts with or without five developmental regions. But the governing structure could be streamlined to remove redundancy and make it more effective, efficient, streamlined and yes decantralized. During the debate all different people with different background could have different inputs but the bottom line should be that we are all united by the common feeling of each of us bearing the identity of a Nepali.

That's more than two cents right there.

After advocating federalism for long time i am giving up on the idea. Given the great appetite of destruction we Nepalese have, the concept of federalism just doesn't seem to work be it ethnic based federalism and geography based federalism.

Lets work on decentralization of power and resources and work on creating an environment of equal justice, opportunity, and respect for people of all races, religions, professions and so on.

Sid

Just like when it came to hang the bell on the cat, him and his republic movement mice are again going to hide his tail and run like he did last time and leave our Nepali Bhedas as sacrificial lambs for the Maoists.

“Just like when it came to hang the bell on the cat, him and his republic movement mice are again going to hide his tail and run like he did last time and leave our Nepali Bhedas as sacrificial lambs for the Maoists.”

 

No matter how he put, what Bathroom said about the republicans leaving the space and the fate of the country at the mercy of Maoist experiments and adventures is a painful truth.

Seeing how the ethnic fundamentalism managed to invade our national consciousness and how Maoists are making R-, L- and U-turn from their initial commitment to a democratic polity, I am starting to question whether fighting for republicanism was worth. Straight from my heart.

However, I still think next 1 or 2 years (one year that is left for bringing out a new constitution and one more year for judging if it could satisfy all, as we have been expecting/claiming ) should get a chance to prove itself before I remorse for my faith and whatever little I contributed for republicanism.

So, Bathroom, give me two more years before I come to you and say, ‘You were right, I was wrong. I remorse for my blunder’.

Meanwhile, let me do this small work of fighting against ethnic division of Nepal, which, as you expressed in another thread, you are against too.

Opposing ethnic division of Nepal is a rare same page you and I are together on. Let’s focus on this. Republicanism and republicans ko kura gardai garaula.

 

Nepe  

mR. hydE and sidster,

You are right about the redundancy and the potential danger of federalism.

However, the decision has been already made (the decision of the interim parliament in 2007, the government-Madhesi groups agreement in 2007 to create a “Madhesi autonomous province”, the Constituent Assembly’s first session’s declaration of a ‘federal republic of Nepal’, to name the few major decisions).

So, saying no to federalism is neither enough nor will work.

Chitra Bahadur KC and his party is like eklo brihaspati in opposing federalism.

So, my point is that, only realistic and practical thing left is to MINIMIZE the potential damage by federalism. So the best thing to do right now is to search and advocate for the LEAST HARMFUL model of federalism.

Mero prayas ra jod teta pati ho. I hope you are not dismissing this kind of thinking.

 

Nepe

Nepe,

Thanks for the acknowledgment, you are right we need to make the best out of what we have in our hand.  I wish you a good luck with your presentation

Sid

"So the best thing to do right now is to search and advocate for the LEAST HARMFUL model of federalism"

no one's gonna give a rat's ass about your work. first, all nepalis, no
matter where they live, are self-motivated for denial of development
and peace. second, ANA is a place i've found to be a place for hunters
- both male and females - to seek for an opportunity to get drunk and
get laid. and yes, fighting too if time allows. third, instead of
organising shitty conferences and spend on drinks and music, donate the
money to the needy.

अन्तिममा,
साँचो कुरा गर्नुपर्दा तिम्रो talk ले भुत्रो पनि केही नेप्पर्दैन।
नेपालका जनतालाई सुक्को मतलब छैन देश कसरी विभिन्न क्षेत्रमा विभाजित
हुँदैछ भनेर। शान्ति र स्थिरता भए पुग्छ उनीहरुलाई, अरु केही चाहिन्न। 
तिम्रो
हुँकार जतिसुकै तिखो भएपनि नेपालमा रहेका जनताको न्यूनतम मागको बारेमा
सम्बोधन गर्न सक्दैन भने डुबेर मरे हुन्छ यत्रो पढेको, संसार देखेको र मैँ
हुँ भनाउँदाहरूले। नेपालमा भएका त के, यहीँ भएका बौद्विक वर्गले पनि बाल
दिँदैनन ANA र त्यसको गतिविधिबारे।  ANA मा आउने मध्ये गनेर २-४ जना
नमस्कार गर्न योग्य होलान, अरुलाई त त्यहीँ तलको gas station मा देखिराको
हो।

raju161,

I apologize for not replying to your message. But that was because I fully agreed with your point. वास्तवमा नै हामीलाई तत्काल चाहिएको शान्ति र कानुनीराज हो । अब त्यस्तो प्राथमिकताको विषय छाडेर तँलाई किन संघियताको विषयमा बोल्नुपर्‍यो भन्नुहुन्छ भने, मैले देखेसम्म संघियता विषयको confusion ले पनि हाम्रो अशान्ति र अराजकतामा केही योगदान पुर्‍याईरहेको छ । पुरै तराईलाई अलग्ग राज्य बनाउनुपर्छ वा ठूलठूला जातीहरुलाई राज्य दिनुपर्छ भनेर लडिरहेका सशस्त्र समुह दखि सक्रिय प्राज्ञहरुले राज्यलाई यसरी तर्साएका छन् कि राज्यले शान्तिको श र कानुनीराजको क पनि सोच्नसकेको छैन तराईका र पहाडका सशस्त्र समुहसंग वार्ता गर्ने रे । तर वार्तामा के भन्ने भन्ने कुरो राज्यलाई थाहा छैन । त्यस्तो छ अवस्था । संघियताको विषय (खास गरेर राजनैतिक पक्ष) अति जटिल बनिसकेको छ । यो नसुल्झाईकन नेपालको तराईमा चलिरहेको  र केही पहाडी भेगमा समेत शुरु हुन लागेको जातिय रंगको अराजकता हट्नेछैन ।

त्यसकारण म आफै सिकारु हुँदाहुँदै पनि मैले सिकेका कुरा र मेरा केही मन्थन बाँड्न खोजेको हुँ । त्यत्ति हो ।

 

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

 

Bhikhari,

ANA को limitation बारेमा सहमत छु । 4000-5000 सहभागीमा मुश्किलले 50 जना forum सुन्न आउँछन् ।

ANA मा हुने खर्च बरु कुनै परोपकारमा लगाउनुमा पूण्य छ भन्ने कुरामा पनि सहमतै छु ।

तर जीवनको विविधता अस्वीकार गर्न हुन्न । परोपकार, सरोकार, स्वैच्छा, यौनेच्छा यी सब जीवनका स्वाभाविक र स्वीकार्य पाटोहरु हुन् । त्यसरी हेर्नुपर्छ भन्छु म ता ।

 

Nepe

विचलित वर्तमान
 
आफुले देख्ता दुइ ढुङ्गा बिचको तरुल जस्तो
तर विश्वले देख्ता दुइ तरुल बिचको सानो ढुङ्गा जस्तो
बुद्ध र सगरमाथाको बिज्ञापनले सधै पेट भर्ने सोचिरहेको
अस्त व्यस्त, तर आफैंमा मस्त – कमल पित्तको रोगी जस्तो

बुढो कुकुर ले हड्डी चुस्ता खाएको आफ्नै रगत जस्तो
आँफैसँग को युद्धमा  आँफै पराजित
अविरल स्खलित, पल पल विचलित
मानौ झम्टी रहेंछ्न्‌ एक हूल बाजहरु
प्रगाढ निद्रामा सुतिरहेका परेवाहरु ।
देवकोटा लेख्यौ - नेपाल, सुन्दर, शान्त, विशाल
सुन्दर त डढेलो लागेर सकिएका  जङ्‌गलहरु
पहिरोले बगाएका पाखाहरु
वर्तमानको त्रासदीमा सपना खोजिरहेका निर्दोष आँखाहरु

शान्त त हिउँको चिसोमा पनि पड्‌किरहेछ ज्वलामुखि
दिउँसै हराउँदै गइरहेछन्‌ दक्षिणकाली र बगलामुखी
कसैलाई क्रान्तिको भ्रान्ति, कसैलाई शान्तिको भ्रान्ती
विशाल त चार लाख छत्तीस वर्णमा बिभाजित
नाकको उचाइ र आँखाको गोलाइमा बिभाजित
आमाको जिब्रो र बाबुको बिडोंमा बिभाजित
 
नेपाल, सुन्दर, शान्त, विशाल
हाम्रा टिशीयन र टर्नर अरबमा भेडा चराइरहेका होलान्‌
असारको पन्ध्र मा अचेल कालीदास
धाराप्रवाह गोली चलाइ रहेका होलान्‌

औंसी मा जुनकिरी खोज्दै गरेको,
अनि मरुस्थल मा पानीको थोपो,
दग्ध, स्तब्ध, त्रसित, विचलित
अव्यक्त पीडामा मौन, विकलित।

नेपेजी,

तपाइ आफ्‌नो ब्रम्हले देखेको र हृदयले सुनेको कुरा भन्ने मान्छे हो । गणतन्त्र गर्भमा हुदा आशावादी हुनुहुन्थ्यो । अहिले गणतन्त्रको गर्भबाट गन्‌तन्त्र र मन्‌तन्त्रको मुसल निस्केको छ, जस्ले सबै सम्हार गर्नेछ समयमै सोच बिचार पुर्याएन भने । त्यही त्रासदीबोध गराउन खोज्दैहुनुहुन्छ, त्यसको लागि धन्यबाद । बर्सौ अगाडि भएको साझाको छलफलमा मैले आफ्नो संशय व्यक्त गरेको थिएं – कतै हाम्रो देश

 

नाकको उचाइ र आँखाको गोलाइमा बिभाजित
आमाको जिब्रो र बाबुको बिडोंमा बिभाजित

 

हुने त हैन? भनेर

किनभने हामीसंग बेग हैन आबेग छ,

हाम्रो राष्ट्रप्रेम आफनो देशको माया मा हैन, छिमेकी देशको घृणामा अडेको छ

We can do revolution, but no evolution. जबसम्म घृणाको राष्ट्रवादबाट हामी प्रेमको राष्ट्रवादमा evolve हुदैनौ, हाम्रो कुनै राष्ट्रिय लक्ष र गन्तव्य हुनेछैन । Until that knowledge dawns on us, we will keep bickering and fighting, tearing apart all the fabrics of our society and nation. At the end when everything will be quiet on the western front, we will realize how stupid and shortsighted we were.

We will learn only in a very hard way. We will dearly pay for our selfishness, greed and arrogance. This is the irrefutable law of nature and we cannot escape that.

Recycled and old, but unfortunately more relevant than ever before.

मेरो देश

दिनहु हत्याको डेबिट र क्रेडिट हिसाब राखेर

नाफाको खोजीमा हिडिरहेको

व्यापारी जस्तो – मेरो देश

 

एक्काइसौं शताब्दीको पहिलो यात्रामै

भविष्य जति चुर्लुम्म डुबेको

विवश, असहाय टाईटानिक जस्तो – मेरो देश

 

आफ्ना अंगहरू अचानोमाथि चोक्टिदैं लुछिदै गर्दा पनि

रुन नसकेर टुलुटुलु हेरिरहेको

बगरेको खसीको टाउको जस्तो – मेरो देश

 

विवेक र चेतनाको लोड शेडिङ्गले

दिउँसै रात पर्ने गरेको

अंधेर नगरी जस्तो – मेरो देश

 

 मद– उन्मत्त भएर आफ्नै सम्हार गर्ने यदु वंशीहरू

अनि निःसहाय अर्जुन देखेर आक्रमण गर्ने डाकुहरू

महाभारतको अन्तिम दृश्य जस्तो – मेरो देश

गोकुलजी,

लामो अन्तरालपछि दर्शन पाईयो । प्रणाम !

कोसेलीको लागि धन्यवाद ! भूपि स्कूलको बेजोड सामयिक कविता – पहिले पनि पढेको हो । कस्तो विचित्रता, यो असामयिक कहिले भएन ।

Nepe

Some of the panelists and moderators of the Nepal Forum...


And for the friends interested in my presentation, I have hopefully a happy news to share - my work might appear in a form of an article in a periodical in Nepal, although not very soon.
With this, I would like to close this thread. I thank all the participants for your thought and emotion provoking comments. I benefited from them. Thank you.

Nepe

Nepe ji how did the event turn out? How many showed up for your talks?

grgDaiji,

It was as expected--
comparable to all other forums but poor in terms of the ratio with the total
attendance of the convention.

Mine was less speech, more data.
So the attendants seem to be finding it educational.

And the panelist who
presented after mine also frequently referred to some of the data I presented.

One interesting anecdote is the
ex-minister and now the leader of ‘Terai-Madhes Democratic Party’, Mr. Sarbendranath
Shukla, who presented Madhesi issues had to refer to some of the unfriendly
data (to the cases he was supposed to make) from my presentation.

Here are two such slides.

 

and

Shuklaji did make a point
about a short list of ministers from Madhesi group compared to one from Pahadi
group (not shown). However, if you look at the surnames of the Madhesi minister
and compare that with the total population of those castes, they do not lag
much behind. At least they are enjoying much better representation than that of
the most unfortunate groups, dalits and muslims.

But the more important data
would be the representation of Madhesi group in the current Constituent
Assembly. As a bulk, they are represented absolutely proportionately.

But the most unfriendly (to
high caste Madhesi elite’s cause) data is the following splitting of high caste
Madhesis and dalit Madhesis’ representation.

High caste Madhesis is
actually enjoying disproportionately high representation in the Constituent
Assembly.

 

Terai populations and representation in Constituent Assembly:

Groups	Population	Representation in CA
Tharu and other adivasi	16 %	18 (15.5%)
Terai high caste and Muslim	34 %	56 (48.3%)
Hill group (Bahun, Chhetri, Janajati)	36 %	39 (33.6%)
Dalit (Terai and Hill)	14 %	3 (2.6%)
Total	100 %	116 (100%)

Source: Jyoti Danuwar, 2008

Now, does some Madhesi
parties’ demand for ‘One Madhesh, One Pradesh’ make any sense ? Absolutely not.

And it was good to hear from
Sarbendranath Shuklaji at the forum that ‘One Madhes, One Pradesh’ is not an
immediate demand/agreement of Madhesis.

That’s all for now.

Nepe